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Monthly Environment Art Challenge - July & August 2017 (49)

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  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    @Zlivingston Your normal map and UV map don't look like they match up. With the normal map it looks like the multiple UVs are overlapping. On your UV map, well I see you have a cylindrical mesh, but the space is mostly taken up by large square and triangle planes. Perhaps you had something else selected when you used the auto-UV?

    @jewski-bot Looks like it could use more resolution. :smile:

    @Larry Is that UE4 auto light mapping, or did you auto map in a 3D software? Just the light maps can be imported in, you do this by having two sets of UV maps on a single mesh. UE4 will automatically designate the second UV map as the light map using the import options. You can also set the Light Map resolution to a higher value. Using the auto-map alone may not have the best results. There's more info in the documentation: https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Content/Types/StaticMeshes/LightmapUnwrapping/

    I used unwrap to the second channel with box mapping in most items. But I set the padding too low as it seems and scaled a bit some parts I thought they would have no problem but they had. So now do I just have to change the uv, and reimport the mesh? Would that change the uv of, all the items with the same name or do I have to replace them in the scene one by one?
  • Quibees
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    Quibees polycounter lvl 4
    I unwraped my throne finally! And now it`s ready for old-style hand-paint I`ll do next :) By the way everyone is doing great job on their works!


  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    Great job on the throne model, @Quibees !  I'm looking forward to your finished piece.

    @Larry and @Supposable Lion , I upped the resolution to a 2048 Square and that tends to work better.  I am getting seams from along the hard edges and am wondering if it's worth chamfering the edges to get a nicer transition (since I don't want the opposite extreme of ugly gradients).  My low polygon model is 9,579 triangles at the moment.  I would probably have to experiment with redoing the UV mapping as well (which would hopefully yield fewer islands and more optimized texel density).


  • Supposable Lion
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    Supposable Lion polycounter lvl 4
    @Larry All you should need to do is re-import the mesh after altering the light map UVs.

    @jewski-bot That looks like UV edges. See if you can add more edge padding to your map bakes.

    @Quibees Your throne is looking quite stellar.
  • Anton_Mendelis
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    @jewski-bot, Hi! It seems to be normal map bake issue, when you have a difference smothing groups on these polygons, but UV's shells of this polygons are not splited. If you split it - there will be no visible seam on the model.
  • Zyhael
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    Zyhael polycounter lvl 6
    Hello guys, I'm new to environment modelling, I have no clue what to do, but I am drawn towards environments and hope to specialize. May I learn a lot from you guys, I've also been reading a lot, that's nice, also I've read I really have to get better doing textures and UV and get better at understanding how UVs work in Unreal or whichever game engine. And normal maps, alas, I know a bit and tried some but I really need to pick up the pace. I also have no clue how large open world spaces are made, but hopefully I'll learn or figure it out along the way.

    I literally have no idea what I'm doing, I've not been taught how to create environments, it has been a trial and error process for me, mostly error coz I really have no idea what I am doing, but somehow I notice I keep coming back to environments, the awe inspiring beauty of environments have kept me coming back. I simply don't know how things are done, I need to learn.

    I have now decided that maybe I should pursue this path, and so I hope you guys would be kind enough to point me in the right direction. I've been reading up on modular assets and figured they are more or less like lego pieces, and yet I'm still having difficulties as to how big the pieces should be and how free I can be with those pieces. And so here is my attempt, the study is incomplete as of now, the bottom part I plan to place the repeating textures that can be found.



    I've also gone and made a blockout phase, though it also is incomplete, forgive me, I just started like a couple hours ago. I was also having trouble with the dimensions, I've only gone with my gut feeling on this one yet I've noticed that I'm somehow forcing the door and passage to the inside of the store to be around 90cm which is as I've read, standard for a door, though in game I think I should make it a tad larger, but the reference image is telling me that the door is just 60cm wide or something..  confusing but I think I'll push the 90cm. 



    I have no idea what I'm doing, my pieces are a bit free and sometimes overlap other pieces, I'm not sure if that's alright for a level developer and I'm also not sure if my pieces are easy to work with, for me it is but for someone else I have no clue.

    Also, as a side note, does the challenge end at Aug 1 or Aug 31? Have mercy on me XD
  • Bostvic
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    Bostvic polycounter lvl 5
    @Zyhael
    It ends on August 31st, so you still have plenty of time! I'm new to environments as well, so you're in good company! My advice is to follow the pipeline posted earlier in this thread, that really helped me and to look at the previous environment challenges.

    I have just finished finished all my high-poly models, I now need to begin the tedious task of baking them. Spent all day doing this guy (the spacesuit without the helmet). I reinterpreted the shoulders of the model as I just couldn't get the folds coming out of the neck to look natural. Basically just tried to make it look like Neil Armstrong's spacesuit. Bloody typical that one of my better human bakes is in the environments challenge and not the character one...


  • MattCoccoli
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    Loved the concept art and just had to give it a shot. Here's some early progress:
    later edit -


  • Anton_Mendelis
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    Little bit late, but I started!
    There is my blockout, that I'm working on. I want to find the right scene composition before I start to do more details.

  • CMPearce
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    CMPearce polycounter lvl 7
    @Zyhael You've made a good start, I'd advise not spending too long on the dimensions/perspective. Quite often with concept art, they will be out and you will have to rely on your eye/knowledge to make it work. Block it all out first, this is vital. Make sure it's looking right and it captures the essence of the concept, even if it doesn't quite match exactly. The way I see it, a concept is just that, a concept. It tells you the mood, colour pallet, tone, focal point etc. That's what you are trying to capture, even if that means taking some artistic liberties.

    @MattCoccoli Really liking the style you have going on there, some really nice texturing. I'd like to see some more of the concept being incorporated though, but looking great all the same. 

    Here is my latest update, been working in some of the details and made some of my own alterations to make it fit. I plan on using Substance for my texturing as I have not used it before and would like to learn that workflow. Feedback always appreciated. 

  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    @Anton_Mendelis and @Supposable Lion  I increased the padding to 16 pixels.  Additionally, I went about optimizing my mesh a bit more to lower it to about 6800 triangles from around 10,000 triangles.  I also wound up having to really play around with the UV layouts which meant a lot of splitting up of the UV islands so now everything from the UV side looks kind of like a mess when taking a look at the actual layout.  On the plus side, the seams are gone and aside from some skewing with the float geometry (which isn't terrible. I can take out the screws and paint them in Substance Painter), looks a lot cleaner.


  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    @Zyhael What you have modeled is far beyond good in proportions and shapes. But if i notice correctly you make some complicated things by extruding faces from box, it takes you more time and will give you more trouble further down the road.It's okay right now, but the more you model try and figure out ways to reduce your faces from the same models.Everything you modeled in your scene can be made with simple boxes with 6 faces (except the gate and the pot) that is if you want the lowest polycount.For games in general you have a limited budget of vertices/triangles you can work with. Here are some quick tips to help you reduce the polycount

    Also for enviromental blocking, try to set your grid spacing to centimeters (5 or 10 i guess?) and use snap to keep everything on grid edges.Snapping is the best method to make exact geometry that fits. The best way with proportions is the realistic way, for example a door should be about 2meters tall and a bit less than 1 meter wide. Also when you finish your model, try to snap the pivot on an verticle in a corner, so that you will be able to put everything exactly next to each other.

    And some general knowledge for enlightenment, games use LOD's (level of detail) meaning that you model the same thing a couple of times, varrying its polygon count from low/mid/high. The closer a person gets to a model in a game, the higher polycount it has but the further away from camera it goes, it gets replaced with lower detailed models, until becoming simple 1 colored shapes/planes or even dissapearing from the viewport. At least that is what i figured, from discussions, if i am incorrect in anything i say please correct me :P
  • Zyhael
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    Zyhael polycounter lvl 6
    Thank you guys for the suggestions, I've taken the appropriate steps and added a few things in.

    @Bostvic Phew, I still got a month but hopefully I finish within the week. Thanks for the advice, been reading up on the previous challenge on how the others did it.

    @CMPearce I kinda forgot it was a concept and had this thinking that I had to follow it to the letter. XD Told my brain to breathe and so far it's been going well.

    @Larry It's kinda funny, I read your post just as I was about to post an update, I actually fixed the things you've said and yes I'm actually planing on creating LODs for the models as well. Thank you for pushing me in the right direction :D



    I'm at around 3482 Triangles, is that a good number? actually it should be 3158, I have the higher poly roof on XD
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx ngon master
    CMPearce said:
    @Zyhael You've made a good start, I'd advise not spending too long on the dimensions/perspective. Quite often with concept art, they will be out and you will have to rely on your eye/knowledge to make it work. Block it all out first, this is vital. Make sure it's looking right and it captures the essence of the concept, even if it doesn't quite match exactly. The way I see it, a concept is just that, a concept. It tells you the mood, colour pallet, tone, focal point etc. That's what you are trying to capture, even if that means taking some artistic liberties.

    @MattCoccoli Really liking the style you have going on there, some really nice texturing. I'd like to see some more of the concept being incorporated though, but looking great all the same. 

    Here is my latest update, been working in some of the details and made some of my own alterations to make it fit. I plan on using Substance for my texturing as I have not used it before and would like to learn that workflow. Feedback always appreciated. 

    oh you sexy Chris! Lookng good, i'm still trying to figure out how to tackle the bloody textures! I know that i'd like to have tiling roof textures (with 1-2 meshes of single shingles to create "thickness". 
  • philipp.bogdanovskiy
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    philipp.bogdanovskiy polycounter lvl 5

    My contribution to the little drone. Rendered in Marmoset.
  • kadeschui
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    kadeschui greentooth
    You all are awesome! Incredible work this time all - Keep it up!
  • SamStark
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    SamStark triangle
    Zyhael said:
    Thank you guys for the suggestions, I've taken the appropriate steps and added a few things in.

    @Bostvic Phew, I still got a month but hopefully I finish within the week. Thanks for the advice, been reading up on the previous challenge on how the others did it.

    @CMPearce I kinda forgot it was a concept and had this thinking that I had to follow it to the letter. XD Told my brain to breathe and so far it's been going well.

    @Larry It's kinda funny, I read your post just as I was about to post an update, I actually fixed the things you've said and yes I'm actually planing on creating LODs for the models as well. Thank you for pushing me in the right direction :D



    I'm at around 3482 Triangles, is that a good number? actually it should be 3158, I have the higher poly roof on XD
    Looks great! I wouldn't worry too much about too much of the poly counts @Zyhael , unless u know your computer cannot handle that. The games now are pretty advance, but of course it is a good practice to be keen on poly count. I would recommend keeping the whole scene in 1-2 million polys. The scene is not really that huge tbh. You can always use normal map for little bumps to reduce poly count.

    My progress for my week 2, a bit slow atm, but hopefully it will be coming together soon enough.


    I did the roof tiles as you can see, but i messed up the normals  :s , so i'm juz gonna show one of em for the scaling.
    Will be spending some time painting texture for the weekend.
  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    Main blockout of the neighborhood complete. Started doodling with some materials, i think it is time to learn how to create my own materials :P  I also think the concrete floor should be beveled a bit, those simple boxes make the concrete material look unrealistic
  • Anton_Mendelis
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    Adding details. I plan to spend a few days to finish the details, and then start a low poly and texturing. I want to bake some normals for details, maybe for the roof tile, ground texture and maybe something else. 
  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4


    The above taken in Substance Painter 2's IRAY renderer.

    And below, the render taken from Marmoset Toolbag 2 (with quite a bunch of post applied, and borrowing a ground preset from Quixel Suit).



    I'm thinking that unless there's a major issue with the little robot, I'm going to call him done.

    I enjoyed the challenge and have certainly learned a heck of a lot.  I think that I still have a little ways to go in terms of design improv and materials setup, but I think by far this is one of the better pieces I've made.

  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator

    Adding details. I plan to spend a few days to finish the details, and then start a low poly and texturing. I want to bake some normals for details, maybe for the roof tile, ground texture and maybe something else. 

     
    Did you make the lightmaps or did you just import the meshes and they got automatic mapping for lighting? You can bake the roof tiling and add a row ofreal ones in the edges. I dont know if the difference will be visible but you will gain alot in performance while still having mostly mockups
  • Anton_Mendelis
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    Larry said:
    Did you make the lightmaps or did you just import the meshes and they got automatic mapping for lighting? You can bake the roof tiling and add a row ofreal ones in the edges. I dont know if the difference will be visible but you will gain alot in performance while still having mostly mockups
    Actually this is a render from 3ds max. I did this to make a composition and test some lighting scheme. Later i going to set up lighting in Unreal Engine, and make it more dramatic :) 
    Yes, I thought about roof in the same way. Thanks!
  • Zyhael
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    Zyhael polycounter lvl 6
    I should really pick up the pace, I'm still new to modeling in Modo but I really like how it works. I still haven't figured out how to do the roof and I'm also wondering how do you people go about texturing this, I'm sorta used to one map per object(s) but never actually built anything for environments so I'm hoping to learn.

    I seem to recall something about using one texture and another for added effects and use vertex colors, along with setting up lerps for normal maps. I guess I'll fail a lot at texturing hahaha, I've also read some things about rules on UV mapping for games, gotta read up a lot. I'm not sure what search term to use though.



    Modo render, the light is at a wrong direction, will transfer this soon to Marmoset.
  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    Okay, so I'm not an architectural modeler, but I can give you some idea as how to approach the roof for the high polygon modeling.  What you're going to do is model a single single / tile / whatever, and place it at one of the roof corners.  Next, you'll go to the duplicate tab and use the array function.  What you might want to do in case you get the proportions wrong is use Instance Array so when you tweak the proportions for one, you can tweak for all.
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    I wanted to join this even though it's like already halfway done. I've done environments in less time, so I think I'll be okay. I've never done stylized environments before, and exterior environments have always been super intimidating, so it's been a VERY slow start as  mentally try to break down the scene into good modular pieces. So I don't have much yet, I'm still blocking out sizes and proportions, but I'm hopeful! Seeing other peoples' approaches I think has really helped. Excited to see more!



  • Bunnirobotcat
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    Bunnirobotcat polycounter lvl 6
    planning to only use diffuse hand painted with a more final fantasy 9 chibi proportion vibe.

    did anyone figure out what the green area is inside the middle house? A door? A large cabinet?
  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    @Bunnirobotcat, it looks like a refrigerator.
  • Bunnirobotcat
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    Bunnirobotcat polycounter lvl 6
    @jewski-bot
    cause of the lighting? XD
  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    Yes, among other things.  There's a note on the side, and also the freezer box drawer is right above the main door, coupled with the impression that the handle looks like it would be for opening a fridge. :)
  • MattCoccoli
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    That area reads to me like a walk-up restaurant counter, although thats maybe too loose with the concept art. Im planning on putting fridges, stovetops, misc kitchen stuff etc in there. Not a whole lot of progress to show but I began porting my assets from Blender into Godot Engine:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741WnWIsf2I

  • Supposable Lion
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    Supposable Lion polycounter lvl 4
    @jewski-bot Your robot looks great! :)

    The challenge is half over but I think I can manage the hard surface interior within the month. I can use some practice on a more sci-fi scene.
    Here's the blockout in UE4.
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    I was going into it thinking it was like a little ramen looking shop haha. But I've been taking a lot of creative liberties and not keeping super close to the concept in some areas. I keep feeling like my scaling is off since I can't get the angle from the concept, but I'm chugging along anyways :)


  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    @kwagner, Kim, what you might consider is attempting to camera match to the concept art if you're having issues with perspective and scale.  I think for doing architectural work, this will help with obtaining accuracy.

    I also have a free modo tutorial online via youtube and art station (shameless plug I know) that I made, though you may also consider looking up Ellery Connell on youtube since his details with building a room interior (mine deals with setting up planes in Photoshop, then matching and modeling).

    @Supposable Lion , thank you for your feedback!  I look forward to seeing how your entry turns out.  I had thought about doing the room or throne as a second entry piece, but the new character art challenge started yesterday and with a new job starting tomorrow, I'm not sure if I'll be able to juggle all of these side projects at once!
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    @jewski-bot thank you! I'll look for those.
  • supersnakelx
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    supersnakelx polycounter lvl 7
    First use of a game engine. No idea what I'm doing. But it's starting to come together.

  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    I like what you have so far @supersnakelx!  Looking good.
  • Zyhael
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    Zyhael polycounter lvl 6
    @jewski-bot So I did what you said, and removed a lot of non visible polygons to lower the count ahaha XD 35k poly total now.


    Still need to do the other roofs, the backalley, the two side buildings, the post and trashbin, the buildings in the background, the ground shocks XD so many hahaha
    I hope I'm doing alright :open_mouth:

    I just noticed that the pipe at the backalley is actually not attached to anything XD or I'm hallucinating
  • jewski-bot
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    jewski-bot polycounter lvl 4
    @Zyhael, That pipe is probably meant to be a gutter drain.  It does have a round support bracket mounted against the wall.

    Anyways, I'm glad that the array trick worked.  It's coming along splendidly. :)
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    @Zyhael I think you're doing awesome so far! I like all the details and the interior.

    I have the whole street kind of laid out including the opposite side of the street from the concept just so I can have a bunch of different angles and screenshots. Still working on replacing blocks with basic models then I can go in and refine some of them :D 



  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    Zyhael said:
    @jewski-bot So I did what you said, and removed a lot of non visible polygons to lower the count ahaha XD 35k poly total now.


    Still need to do the other roofs, the backalley, the two side buildings, the post and trashbin, the buildings in the background, the ground shocks XD so many hahaha
    I hope I'm doing alright :open_mouth:

    I just noticed that the pipe at the backalley is actually not attached to anything XD or I'm hallucinating
    Stop eating whatever mushroom you see in the forest mate.
  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    kwagner said:
    @Zyhael I think you're doing awesome so far! I like all the details and the interior.

    I have the whole street kind of laid out including the opposite side of the street from the concept just so I can have a bunch of different angles and screenshots. Still working on replacing blocks with basic models then I can go in and refine some of them :D 



    Did you also create the lightmaps or did you just import the meshes in ue4?
  • supersnakelx
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    supersnakelx polycounter lvl 7
    @kwagner
    Impressive work! Can't wait to see it with the materials done.
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    @Larry I haven't UV or lightmapped anything yet I just imported the meshes into Unreal.

    @supersnakelx Thanks! I've never done stylized textures before so I'm terrified to texture it and ruin it haha
  • Zyhael
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    Zyhael polycounter lvl 6
    I think I've been enjoying and did something else instead of the concept, I recall I was having a break and trying stuff out other than the concept and before I knew it it was 12am, and I have this.... so weird... I must pause this and finish the concept first lol



    @jewski-bot I know it's a pipe for the gutter drain but it's not attached to anything really XD
    @Larry These are really really strong mushrooms, you wan't some? XD I mean I still think it's attached to nothing,



    @kwagner Count me in on not knowing how to do stylized texture, in fact I have no clue on texturing, I'm gonna learn it along the way haha. Also how did you import it to UE? Does UE understand instance meshes or do I have to like recreate everything there again? XD
    Also, I've been stalking you, just artstation tho, and I must say your work is awesome and is way better than mine, I do agree on the posts of people on the thread you made, lighting and textures need work, but mine needs way more work.. lol
    I hope you can teach me a thing or two.
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    @Zyhael In Unreal go to the content folder or whatever folder you want to hold your meshes click "import" and find the FBX of the mesh. Then you can click and drag the mesh into the scene. If you've already built your scene in something else I still haven't found a solid way to import a scene from one software to Unreal. You can try importing it as an FBX and make sure "combine meshes" is unchecked and it should import each piece individually but you still might have to rebuild the scene...

    But I'm glad you like my work! Texturing and lighting especially have always been my weak points. Texturing got a lot better over the last year, but for my degree we weren't taught lighting AT ALL other than 3 point lighting setups in Maya so I've been sucking up all the tutorials I can find.
  • Finnn
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    Finnn greentooth
  • Finnn
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    Finnn greentooth
  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    @kwagner
    Does lighting look like this if you build it without bringing lightmaps ? I've never brought anything into unreal without having lightmap UVs in it and i start questioning my whole existence now :P Why have i stayed up for hours trying to make good lightmaps while if you just import them like this, the lighting/shadows seem great?
  • Zyhael
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    Zyhael polycounter lvl 6
    Larry said:
    @kwagner
    Does lighting look like this if you build it without bringing lightmaps ? I've never brought anything into unreal without having lightmap UVs in it and i start questioning my whole existence now :P Why have i stayed up for hours trying to make good lightmaps while if you just import them like this, the lighting/shadows seem great?
    I believe if you import the mesh in unreal it will look like that, but once you build, it'll go haywire and look like crap xD. So your using hours on end making good lightmaps are worth it coz once you build, it'll look awesome and not some strange shadowy thing facing the sun XD
  • kwagner
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    kwagner polycounter lvl 5
    @Larry so very few of my models are UV mapped and the ones that are, I also made a lightmap for. Unreal can automatically create a lightmap for a mesh on import if the option is checked, but depending on the surface and the material on it, the modular peices can look very obvious. It's 100% worth it to take the time to create the lightmaps for most of the meshes.
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