Modo 11 is now available

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Tidal Blast
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Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
MODO 11 is now available.
https://www.foundry.com/products/modo/new-releases

Video: Modo 11 - What's new


New Features 
Game Export Improvements - The Game Asset Exporter has been redesigned to make it more useful and easier to manage. 

Progressive Baking Accessibility - Progressive Baking is now available from the menu bar, by clicking Render > Open Progressive Baking. 

Unreal Material Importer Workflow Improvements - Some improvements have been made to the material importer workflow for Unreal, you can now: 
• Import materials to any folder in Unreal Engine's Content Browser. 
• Import textures into the texture sub-path, which can be specified in Modo's Game Asset Exporter. 
• Import and update only selected materials in the Content Browser. 
• Import and update only the materials that are used by selected meshes in the Content Browser. 
• Assign materials to imported meshes, instead of instances in the scene. 
• Use both the Modo Material button and Unreal Engine 4's Import button to import materials. 

Auto Retopo Improvements - The following new options have been added to the Automatic Retopology tool: 
• Shortest EdgePoly Scaling option 
• CurvaturePoly Scaling option 
• Adaptive Poly Count mode 
• New Mesh option 

Auto-activating Ghosting and Edit Base Mesh Command - Accessing the base mesh in procedural modeling has been simplified. When any base mesh is selected, ghost mode is now automatically enabled. Secondly, the Edit Base Mesh command has been added in the mesh options. This command directly sets up the editable base mesh mode for the selected item. 

Implicit Mesh Operation Selection - Items that are related to the same Mesh Operations list are now implicitly selected, so all their properties are visible at the same time. 

MeshFusion Workflow Enhancements - The following improvements have been made to the MeshFusion workflow: 
• In-place Compound Trim creation and editing - a new workflow has been added for automating the creation and editing of Compound Trims. 
• Cut, Copy, Paste, and Split tools - new commands have been added for cutting, copying, pasting, and splitting elements of a Fusion Item. 
• Optimization Control - you can now optimize MeshFusion performance by either caching Boolean operation, or by caching meshes. 

Remove-Delete Keyboard Shortcuts - The keyboard shortcuts for deleting and removing components have been changed. The Delete and Backspace keys delete components, while Shift+Backspace removes polygons. 

Sculpt Brush Preview - When a brush-based tool is activated, a circle is now drawn under the mouse when you hover over a surface, to make painting and sculpting easier. 

Select by Previous Operation - This new mesh operation allows you to select previously created elements in the Mesh Operations list. 

Grid Display - A new panel has been added to specify Work Plane and grid display. You can click Work Plane > Grid and Work Plane settings to open the panel. 

Installation Streamlining - The following improvements have been made to the installation process: 
• License dialog - the License dialog has been updated. 
• Application name - Modo now installs using a proper Foundry naming convention. 
• Start after install - the Windows installer now includes an option to start Modo after completing the installation process. 
• Core content - Modo now includes a core set of content. Basic sets of assemblies, aliases, brushes, colors, matcaps, basic and sculpting meshes, profiles, paint and sculpt tools, and image links are provided. The Preset Browsers point to these core presets by default, where applicable, while still providing access to external content. 
• Start-up messages - the various start-up messages have been consolidated into one dialog. 
• New version warning - when a new Modo version is available, a notification is displayed, prompting you to download it.

Introduction Screen - The new introduction screen allows you to quickly open and create projects, and access learning materials. 

Motion Blur for Procedural Meshes - Procedural meshes now support motion blur. This allows procedural geometry that has been generated by mesh operations, to appear blurred as the polygonal elements move through the frame. 

Preview Render Region Toolbar - A toolbar has been added to the Render tab to activate and set a render region in Preview, as well as change the render camera. 

Safe Mode - To aid customer support in debugging issues, you can now run Modo without loading any kits, plugins, or custom configurations. 

Tool HUD - The Tool HUD, a context-sensitive form containing recently used tools, is available in the 3D viewport for every layout. You can toggle its visibility by pressing Ctrl/Cmd+Tab. 

VDBVoxel Improvements - The following improvements have been made to the VDBVoxel item: 
• Transform options - the VDBVoxel item now has Transform options in the Properties panel. 
• Velocity Scale - velocity data can now be loaded if a voxel is created from particles that have velocity information. Velocity Scale is used for scaling velocity data, by default it is set to 0, so as to match the results in previous Modo versions. The value of velocity impacts generated voxels and the generated mesh. 
• Motion Blur - a scale value for motion blur, applicable to voxels created from particles that have velocity information. 

Backdrop Item Visibility - A Show in Perspective checkbox has been added to the Backdrop item properties, which enables and disables the visibility of Backdrop items in the Perspective view. 

Curve Particle Generator Improvements - The Curve Particle Generator's alignment has been improved and new End of Curve behaviors have been added. 

Item Draw Cache - To speed up the display of items, several improvements to internal item drawing have been made, especially in the cases of locators and animation. The animation display is now cached for every frame for faster playback. 

Faster Viewport Switching with Gradient - The speed of switching from the Default to the Advanced viewport has been improved. 

Fur in the Advanced Viewport - With fur material, fur can now be displayed as segmented lines in the Advanced viewport, but its color can not be set. 

GL Drawing Performance - The speed of drawing instance items, replica surfaces, and replica bounding boxes has been improved. 

Item List Improvements - The following improvements have been made to the Item List: 
• Fast item hiding - you can now quickly hide and reveal items using the Alt+click and Shift+Alt+click keyboard shortcuts. 
• Select button - the Select button at the top of the Item List now allows you to select items using a specific text pattern. 
• Render camera icon - the render icon is displayed next to the render camera, and its name is bold. You can now also set the render camera by right-clicking the camera in the Item List. 

OpenSubdiv Drawing Package - The OSD drawing override now draws Pixar subdivision surface using OpenSubdiv 3.0 instead of native Catmull-Clark and Subdivision polygon mesh drawing. This improves the drawing speed for high subdivision levels. 

Schematic Improvements - The following improvements have been made to the Schematic viewport: 
• Node snapping - nodes are snapped into position when added to the Schematic. 
• Instancing links - instances are highlighted in pink when you select their source item. 
• Select Inputs - you can now select a node and all its incoming nodes by right-clicking the node, then in the context-menu, clicking Select Inputs. 

Selection Sets 
• Selection set groups - you can now organize items using a specific selection set into a selection set group. 
• Selection set UI - selection sets have been made more accessible by adding a button to the modes toolbar, which opens the Selection Sets panel. 

Spline and Bezier Deformer Improvements - Modo 11.0 adds an improved method for computing the setup of deformed transformation, to avoid twisting problems. The following properties have also been added to the Spline and Bezier Effector's properties: 
• Draw Setup 
• Align To Spline 
• Use Twist 
• Use Scale 
• Orbit Twist 

Transform and Duplicate - You can now transform and duplicate components at the same time, holding Ctrl/Cmd+Shift when using the Transform tools. 

Irradiance Caching Improvements - The following enhancements have been made to irradiance caching: 
• Anisotropic irradiance values - cached irradiance values previously had circular regions of influence based on their distance to the closest nearby surface. This meant that IC values tended to be densely packed near inside edges such as between a wall and a ceiling. Now they can have elliptical regions of influence, allowing them to be spaced further apart in the direction parallel to an inside edge, potentially saving render time and memory. 
• Store Direct Light option - this option is now enabled by default. It includes illumination from direct light sources in addition to indirect illumination in the secondary irradiance cache values, saving time whenever a first bounce indirect ray hits a surface that already has cached secondary values. 

Maximum Radiance - The Maximum Radiance render setting has been changed into a unitless floating point number and it acts as a multiplier for the most highly exposed render output in the scene. 

Mesh Light Improvements - The following enhancements have been made to mesh lights:
• Caustics - mesh lights and cylinder lights can now generate caustics like other direct light types. Direct caustics need to be enabled in the Render Global Illumination settings, and caustics only show in final renders, where photon tracing is calculated. 
• Use Prototype Transform - this new option allows you to position a mesh light item's light by positioning the prototype mesh item. This option is enabled by default, but scenes created in previous versions still load with this option disabled. 
Occlusion Baking Improvements - Occlusion rays fired from the base of the source surface no longer hit the back side of polygons by default. In order for occlusion rays to hit the back side of surfaces, their materials need to be doublesided. 

Render Output Masking - Render outputs now support group masks and layer masks in the Shader Tree. 

Simplification of Render Settings - The render Properties tabs have been updated to use form proficiency levels to hide many of the more advanced controls by default and allow focus on the most relevant options. In addition, the render settings preset loader and camera picker are available on all three tabs. 

Other Feature Enhancements: 
• Deformers: Most of the hidden channels for the Spline and Bezier Deformers have been moved into the Properties panel. 
• File Input (Windows only): Support for SolidWorks 2017 has been added. 
• File Output: Games Export - Texture export paths have been fixed so they are no longer considered absolute paths if prefixed by a forward slash. 
• Network Rendering: We now pass frame buffers back from slaves for per-frame rendering. 
• Render layout: The Material-level Importance control now also affects indirect (GI) and direct light samples, which allows you to use it to control the overall quality of a specific material. 
• Render layout: An error message has been added for the render.dpi being disabled when not using physical resolution units. 
• Sculpt: A sculpt.constraint tool has been added to the Preset and Sculpt toolbar. In addition, the Sculpt toolbar now has added labels on the dividers to allow collapsing of tools and settings. 
• UI: An Add Loop tool has been added to the contextual pop-up menus and to the Tool HUD. 
• UI: A progress monitor has been added to UV Atlas creation. 

In addition to new features, Modo11.0v1, it also contains over 220 bug fixes and improvements. We recommend that all Modo users update to the latest version for the best Modo experience. 

Release notes for Modo 11.0v1
Release notes for Modo 11.0v2
Release notes for Modo 11.0v3

Modo 11 may not look as impressive as previous releases, because it wasn't about adding tons of new features. Instead, the Modo dev team spent their efforts on improving Modo as a whole; performance, bug fixes, making some already existing tools better, streamlining exports, etc. It makes what we use every day better and that's extremely valuable to me as a Modo user.

We don't really know what they are going to work on for the upcoming releases of Modo 11.1 and Modo 11.2, but I like this new direction. Modo just keeps getting better and better, stable, reliable and always more fun to use.

Do not hesitate to download the free trial on website and make an opinion for yourself.
https://www.foundry.com/user/login?destination=/products/modo/trial

Note:
For those who don't know, The Foundry changed how they were developing Modo since Modo 10. Now, every new release is separated into 3 major releases (ex: Modo 11.0 - -> Modo 11.1 - -> Modo 11.2). And then each major release can receive several patches. By example, Modo 11 is currently at 11.0v3. Such method of development allows the Foundry to maintain the stability of Modo while they keep adding more features to it over time. As a consumer, the great thing about this model is that if you are interested in the new features added to Modo 11, you can wait until The Foundry releases Modo 12, purchase Modo 12, get everything they added to 11 and during the year you'll also get all the features for 12 as the Modo dev team keeps working on it.

Replies

  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 2
    If I compare the cost of Modo with Maya, I'd just rent Maya atleast I get more bang for the buck IMO.
  • Unknown_Target
    How? If you rent Maya for one year you've spent $1,400 - and then you have to spend the same amount next year. Modo is a one-time cost of $1,800.
  • Cibo
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    Cibo polycounter lvl 5
    The problem is that Modo claims to be a complete Suite but in many sections Modo can be called awkward or worst case garbage.
    Modo never reached the Status of a complete Suite in the comunity and is more of a Modelling/Render Tool for over 1800 Dollar When other programms like Zbrush and others cost alot less.


  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    You cant seriously be comparing the featureset of Modo and Zbrush? :P 
  • Cibo
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    Cibo polycounter lvl 5
    You mean the features everyone use only with pincers except from Modelling and Rendershots?
    Features are a nice Checkbox for raise the price but they are not solid enough.

    Why i compare it to zbrush? Because zbrush has a strong core ( Sculpting ) like Modo with the Modelling.
    Zbrush can more but its sold primary as sculpting programm for less than the half.
    In my eyes Modo claims a title they cant fulfill.


  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 2
    I agree with what many have mentioned about Modo.  Why I said if I were to spend $2K and I know this has to be paid each year, I'd rather go with Maya; I prefer traditional modeling over doing for example, hard surfacing in zBrush.  
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    Then entry price point may be around 2K, after that it's more around $500 USD for an upgrade and whenever you want to upgrade. The last MODO version that I've purchased was 901. MODO is an excellent package for 3D modelers - specifically 3D modeling, including; weapons, characters, environments, sci-fi stuff, etc. If 3D modeling is your life, it's worth considering Modo.

    Now on top of that Modo also allows us to produce great looking renders, match the UE4 viewport, sculpt in 3D, paint in 3D, rig, animate and create 3D films. And it is not the 80-90s anymore when 3D apps were just bad, period. Maybe those others tools in Modo aren't as refined as they are in other apps, but it didn't stop artists from producing game animations, great looking renders, commercials or animated films with Modo. And there is a synergy between the different tools that are at our disposal in Modo that I couldn't find in 3DS Max and probably not either in Maya or Blender. That's why it's great that it can do more than just 3D modeling or rendering.

    And long term, Modo is a lot less expensive, especially if a small company has to purchase multiple copies for their employees. And again, long term, I would rather invest in Modo + The Foundry and see Modo grow and eventually rival other apps in multiple fields such as rigging, 3D animation, 3D sculpting, etc. I chose to support Modo for the same reasons I decided to invest in Allegorithmic (Substance Designer/Painter). Those guys are great and work hard to make our lives better as artists.
  • C86G
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    C86G polycounter lvl 5
    "match the UE4 viewport"

    Any more info on that please?
  • xMFZ
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    xMFZ polycounter lvl 4
    C86G said:
    "match the UE4 viewport"

    Any more info on that please?
    You can now create an "Unreal Material" and apply your UE4 texture exports in each of their respective sockets, throw in a lighting environment, and preview your model fairly close to how it will look in engine in the Advanced viewport.
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    Modo subscription is 599 USD, so less then half of Maya. And like other said, it can do alot more than just modelling and rendering still shots. 
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 2
    Speaking to a Modo user, he mentions the program isn't completely positive, has alot of hang ups; as the developers try to make the program be everything instead of strictly modeling. 
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    Speaking to a Modo user, he mentions the program isn't completely positive, has alot of hang ups; as the developers try to make the program be everything instead of strictly modeling. 
    It really comes down to how we want to look at things. And that may not be the most accurate point of view. Modo, as a 3D modeler, does benefit from being made by The Foundry and having all those extra tools such as 3D sculpting, rigging, animation, etc.

    The Advanced Viewport that Modo has now comes from the project ''Clear Technology'' that is a derivative of the Mari viewport. The recently added procedural tools that Modo has takes advantage of the already existing rigging tools. Modo now has an Auto-Retopology tool that can be used in a variety of workflows; MeshFusion, 3D sculpting, procedural tools (similar to the 3DS Max modifiers), etc.
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    Speaking to a Modo user, he mentions the program isn't completely positive, has alot of hang ups; as the developers try to make the program be everything instead of strictly modeling. 
    I think you can define me as a pretty hardcore modo user :D And yeah, its true they have added alot of things, trying to do more than just modelling and rendering. Wasnt that the complaint though, that it wasnt a full suite? Modo have a pretty complete pipeline for pretty much everything game-art related. The one thing it cant compete in is character animation, it doesnt have the kind of 3rd party support that Maya have. But for simpler things the animation capabilities are fine. I have rigged and animated stuff that have made their way into a bunch of AAA games by now.
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 2
    If The Foundry would have strictly continued with focusing on modeling; I probably would have moved to Modo a while ago. It looks as though I will have to adapt Maya for traditional modeling. 
  • TheGabmeister
    The new subscription model is very enticing. Currently reviewing the trial version at the moment. I'm a hard-surface prop & environment artist who does not do rigging and animation. This seems like a very good deal for me. 
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
          Mother $%^#, The Foundry is one huge step closer to becoming Autodesk.
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
    It looks as though I will have to adapt Maya for traditional modeling. 

     one of the stranger posts ever made on this board 
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 2
    It looks as though I will have to adapt Maya for traditional modeling. 

     one of the stranger posts ever made on this board 
    It's your perception.
  • Leuey
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    Leuey polycounter lvl 3
     I have both...I do most of my work in MODO.  There's things that Maya can do with Animation, Rigging and Simulation that MODO cannot - and probably will never do.  MODO is better for straight up modeling, shading and rendering.  I use the animation and rigging tools in MODO a lot as well (the rigging tools are actually quite good and it can do some things Maya cannot).  Basically, just about any 3D program can suite the needs of 90% of the people on these boards.....most of the 'package' complaining I hear is from people who can't create shit worth looking at in any package. (not pointing fingers...just a general observation from the last 20 years in this business)
  • EtotheRic
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    EtotheRic polycounter lvl 13
    Leuey said:
     I have both...I do most of my work in MODO.  There's things that Maya can do with Animation, Rigging and Simulation that MODO cannot - and probably will never do.  MODO is better for straight up modeling, shading and rendering.  I use the animation and rigging tools in MODO a lot as well (the rigging tools are actually quite good and it can do some things Maya cannot).  Basically, just about any 3D program can suite the needs of 90% of the people on these boards.....most of the 'package' complaining I hear is from people who can't create shit worth looking at in any package. (not pointing fingers...just a general observation from the last 20 years in this business)
    I'm curious if you have tried weight painting and deformation in Modo 11? That is one area I have had major problems within Modo. I use it for just about everything but weight painting in particular is painful. I'm wondering if maybe I'm doing something wrong. At work I end up sending everything to Max or Maya so it doesn't matter but at home I do my rigging in Modo.

    (haven't updated to Modo 11)
  • Leuey
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    Leuey polycounter lvl 3
    Unfortunately weight painting is still painful. They know it's painful...but I don't know if the fix will be in the 11 series.  Deformation caching for animation helps a lot...could use some work still (in the UI aspect) but it helps a lot.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan sublime tool
    Just wondered if the viewport performance has improved in these last few releases? It's something that has always been woefully lacking any time I've given Modo a trial.
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    Viewport performance is dependant on so many things, so.. hard to say. I mean I can have many tens of millions of polygons rendered without problem if thats what you ask, but its been like that since forever :)
  • musashidan
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    musashidan sublime tool
    @snefer not any time I've tried it (latest try 10.2) I'm talking pure polycount. A 2mill decimated mesh from ZB would practically choke the viewport. Yet you say you can push 10s of mill no prob?

    I must give it another try then. :)
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    There is a difference in active editable polygons per layer and polygons rendered. Having a 2 mil decimated mesh in one layer, and editing it, makes modo crawl a bit yes. Thats still one of modos big problems, need to split things up. But just having tons of polygons in a scene is no problem at all.
  • pmiller001
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    pmiller001 polycounter lvl 3
    I enjoy Modo a bunch. I think its an excellent modeling tool. And the animation/rigging tools got me to not hate rigging haha. Also animating in it is quite fun. 
    Not to mention this sweet plugin for it, that I personally can not get enough of.
    https://www.pixelfondue.com/blog/2017/7/4/pushing-points-mop-booleans-for-modo-11
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    I enjoy Modo a bunch. I think its an excellent modeling tool. And the animation/rigging tools got me to not hate rigging haha. Also animating in it is quite fun. 
    Not to mention this sweet plugin for it, that I personally can not get enough of.
    https://www.pixelfondue.com/blog/2017/7/4/pushing-points-mop-booleans-for-modo-11
    Glad you are liking it!
  • SenSayNyu
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    SenSayNyu polycounter lvl 4
    You've made me curious so I've done a few tests of viewport and poly edit perfomance today. 9 millions faces sphere, single layer mesh, I7 3770 + MSI 1070 combo, Maya 2017 vs Modo 11.1.
    Surprisingly Modo beats Maya in poly edit (Maya chokes for a few mins trying to move 200k faces, Modo does it in a few seconds ), but looses a bit in viewport perfomance while in component mode. In Item mode Modo gives equal fps, turning off wireframe results in 200-300 fps.
    Mind you, that it's OS/hardware dependent and I'm not very familiar with Maya, so take it with grain of salt.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    If you're running nvidia (or amdgpu drivers on linux), your viewport performance will be significantly better than with amd's proprietary drivers. Also before/after you update your gpu drivers you should do a quick test of viewport perf (glmeter shows viewport fps) as there can be a huge difference between driver sets — at least, that has been my experience with amd thus far. If you don't need to edit dense meshes (like zbrush sculpts) they should be imported as static meshes.
  • pmiller001
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    pmiller001 polycounter lvl 3
    Snefer said:
    I enjoy Modo a bunch. I think its an excellent modeling tool. And the animation/rigging tools got me to not hate rigging haha. Also animating in it is quite fun. 
    Not to mention this sweet plugin for it, that I personally can not get enough of.
    https://www.pixelfondue.com/blog/2017/7/4/pushing-points-mop-booleans-for-modo-11
    Glad you are liking it!
    Yeah man! you guys did great! It functions just as well, if not better than I expected. I keep thinking to myself "is this how tor Frick freels when modeling?. Love it. " 
  • Deathstick
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    Deathstick polycounter lvl 4
    ^^Everytime Modo ever pops into my head I always think of Tor Frick, best unofficial mascot ftw ;)
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer polycounter lvl 12
    The advanced viewport on 11.1 version has no shadows :sweat:  Like always, they solve a bug to create hundreds. this is like a bad curse man.

    With 11.0vX the operations with "mirror on" had constant mesh symmetrical errors. With 11.1 the thing looks better...
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 10
    Blaizer said:
    The advanced viewport on 11.1 version has no shadows :sweat:  Like always, they solve a bug to create hundreds. this is like a bad curse man.

    With 11.0vX the operations with "mirror on" had constant mesh symmetrical errors. With 11.1 the thing looks better...
    Yes it does :P What are you talking about, haha :D
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 2
    I am waiting for the end-of-year sale, if there is one. I am saving up money to buy following tools: Modo, Zbrush, Substance Painter, Affinity Photo & Designer, Marmoset Toolbag and so on. I won't be eligible for any student discount because I am not one, though...
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
    ambelamba said:
    I am waiting for the end-of-year sale, if there is one. I am saving up money to buy following tools: Modo, Zbrush, Substance Painter, Affinity Photo & Designer, Marmoset Toolbag and so on. I won't be eligible for any student discount because I am not one, though...
    Now that they have subscriptions, I'm really curious if the annual subscription will have a sale the way they've always done with the perpetual license.
  • marks
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    marks polycounter lvl 9
    Foundry still offer perpetual licenses aswell as the new subscription, right? And it's still less than half the price of a one-year license of 3dsmax.
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
    marks said:
    Foundry still offer perpetual licenses aswell as the new subscription, right? And it's still less than half the price of a one-year license of 3dsmax.
    There's a couple problems now with getting a perpetual license,  though.
    First, there's a huge gap between the price of that and the price of an annual subscription.
    Getting the perpetual license with maintenance/upgrades, it would take around nine years to break even on the cost. I would assume this is because you have the benefit of keeping it if you can't make payments. But if you can't pay $600 a year for the source of your livelihood, you have much bigger problems.
    Second, my impression is that The Foundry is sliding down the same path as Autodesk and Adobe, and could very easily end up abandoning the perpetual licenses in the near future.
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 2
    I'd like to get a annual license of Mari and Modo, at a discount; I know zBrush will never be discounted.  To say if you can't afford $600 a year then you need to asset your livelihood, holds some merit; remember keeping a car running in tip-top shape and insurance has annual fees as well, among other things.  
    Therefore $600 a year isn't that bad, and it's more affordable then paying monthly; unlike Adobe which makes sure whatever method you choose there isn't much difference in savings, you just have to pick what is best and how long you'll need.  I may need older version of some of Adobe software for scripting, all because when your CC subscription expires you can't complete scripts as Adobe ceases the program from working, which is a bummer.
  • marks
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    marks polycounter lvl 9
    Grimwolf said:
    marks said:
    Foundry still offer perpetual licenses aswell as the new subscription, right? And it's still less than half the price of a one-year license of 3dsmax.
    There's a couple problems now with getting a perpetual license,  though.
    First, there's a huge gap between the price of that and the price of an annual subscription.
    Getting the perpetual license with maintenance/upgrades, it would take around nine years to break even on the cost. I would assume this is because you have the benefit of keeping it if you can't make payments. But if you can't pay $600 a year for the source of your livelihood, you have much bigger problems.
    Second, my impression is that The Foundry is sliding down the same path as Autodesk and Adobe, and could very easily end up abandoning the perpetual licenses in the near future.
    https://www.foundry.com/products/modo/select

    What am I missing here? For me, 1 perpetual license is costed at £1499 excluding tax. Subscription is £50/month. So that's 30 months subscription for the cost of a perpetual license, not 9 years? Also: a perpetual license is still less than half the price of one year of 3dsmax subscription (which iirc is around £3500/year in the UK).

    Like, outperforming your competitors on cost is one thing. The Foundry is basically clubbing baby seals at this point though.
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
    You're forgetting the extra $400 a year for upgrades.
  • marks
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    marks polycounter lvl 9
    Of which you absolutely do not need to pay for if you don't want to...?
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
    I don't even know if you're being serious anymore, so... I'm just gonna walk away.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 5
    Note, if you have the perpetual.. you can skip updates as well, and then get caught up later at a lower price point. It really depends on whether you need or find value in a new version release.

    The language changed, and I didn't like it at first but its still essentially the same model we had before. Perpetual still exist, upgrades exist (now called maintenance) and you can just rent the software for a year. I think the latter was targeted more towards studios and those who need to add a license for a project without the heavy investment.

    The Foundry booth was extremely impressive at Siggraph this year as well. You can tell there is a big focus on game dev right now and it shows in the kind of approach they are going with. The VR stuff was impressive.

    I wouldn't be too worried at this point. If they went rent only, the backlash would be huge and they don't really have a big enough market share to take that kind of risks.
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 9
    the only consideration from me is the performance issue. they can even dedicate an entire year of development cycle for improving overall speed and performance and I wouldn't bother for new features at this point(except for proper bevel tool).
  • gnoop
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    gnoop polycounter lvl 7
      I did a few approaches to Modo in the past and never found anything    compelling enough.     Quite contrary  I always found Blender more convenient so I shrugged and went back.       Blender + Cycles have a kind of elegance of simplicity and laconism   where  Modo always  looked like a cryptic puzzle.   Even as a modeller only.
      
    Now I have to work  with  complex scenes and thousands of scattered  objects and Blender particle/hairs tools  are not very exciting imo?
    I don't like to see bounding boxes  instead of actual geometry.   Too slow  viewport.  Not enough immediate  visual feedback.

      Could Modo be on pair with 3ds max  here?     Something like object paint , pFlow , PhisX painter  etc?   
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
    gnoop said:
      I did a few approaches to Modo in the past and never found anything    compelling enough.     Quite contrary  I always found Blender more convenient so I shrugged and went back.       Blender + Cycles have a kind of elegance of simplicity and laconism   where  Modo always  looked like a cryptic puzzle.   Even as a modeller only.
      
    Now I have to work  with  complex scenes and thousands of scattered  objects and Blender particle/hairs tools  are not very exciting imo?
    I don't like to see bounding boxes  instead of actual geometry.   Too slow  viewport.  Not enough immediate  visual feedback.

      Could Modo be on pair with 3ds max  here?     Something like object paint , pFlow , PhisX painter  etc?   
    I think that's just because you're more familiar with Blender.
    Because of the way some of the tools work in Blender, and the complete absence of other tools compared to Modo, there are a lot of things that would take several steps to achieve in Blender which only take one or two in Modo.
    That's part of what makes Modo so much faster.

    As an example, Blender doesn't even have true local transformations.
    Say you have a circular shape, with several identical details protruding off opposite sides. You want to scale each of them down from the sides.
    In Modo, all you have to do is select each element, go to local orientation, and scale X.
    in Blender, you either have to scale each element independently, or each one has to be an instance/array. This means each one would need to be completely identical, and that you need to have had the foresight to set them up like that in the first place or redo them.

    Another example would be creating a radial array.
    In Modo, all you have to do is press the radial array button, choose your settings, and activate the tool.
    In Blender, you have to set up an array modifier, choose object orientation, drop an empty object into the scene, set that as the source of your object orientation in the modifier, and then begin tweaking the transformation of the empty object to get the desired result. You may also have to apply any transformations on the object with the modifier in order to avoid any weird results.
  • gnoop
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    gnoop polycounter lvl 7
    Grimwolf said:

    In Modo, all you have to do is select each element, go to local orientation, and scale X.

    Is it anyhow different from having pivot point  set to "individual origins" ; transformation orientation to "Normal" and   hit "S" and two times "Z"   in Blender ?       I see no difference actually.

      As of the array modifier it's  one of the things I love Blender for.   It's modifier , like in MAx  :)    And to make that kind of arrays you are talking about  "duplucation"  on an edge loop  is  probably a right way and super easy to do and yet stays more live and editable than in Modo .
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 3
    gnoop said:
    Grimwolf said:

    In Modo, all you have to do is select each element, go to local orientation, and scale X.

    Is it anyhow different from having pivot point  set to "individual origins" ; transformation orientation to "Normal" and   hit "S" and two times "Z"   in Blender ?       I see no difference actually.

      As of the array modifier it's  one of the things I love Blender for.   It's modifier , like in MAx  :)    And keeps to stay live all the time
    Well, it is still more steps, which was exactly my point.
  • nervouschimp
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    nervouschimp polycounter lvl 4
    As an example, Blender doesn't even have true local transformations.
    Say you have a circular shape, with several identical details protruding off opposite sides. You want to scale each of them down from the sides.
    In Modo, all you have to do is select each element, go to local orientation, and scale X.
    in Blender, you either have to scale each element independently, or each one has to be an instance/array. This means each one would need to be completely identical, and that you need to have had the foresight to set them up like that in the first place or redo them.

    Another example would be creating a radial array.
    In Modo, all you have to do is press the radial array button, choose your settings, and activate the tool.
    In Blender, you have to set up an array modifier, choose object orientation, drop an empty object into the scene, set that as the source of your object orientation in the modifier, and then begin tweaking the transformation of the empty object to get the desired result. You may also have to apply any transformations on the object with the modifier in order to avoid any weird results.
    These are not the best examples to be honest. Neither of these situations are a problem in blender. I like radial arrays in blender. I don't sit and tweak the transform empty. The blender transform fields accept basic math. Does your array have 7 clones? Then just type 360/7 into the rotation field and you are done. Also keep in mind that arrays are a nondestructive modifier in blender, and working with mesh ops in Modo are generally slower than the very well designed modifier panel in blender. As for needing to apply transforms in blender, this was a big issue for me in Modo as well when working with mesh ops, so not a good argument.

    Warren Marshall posted a video recently on the MOPS boolean toolkit for Modo that mostly served to showcase how horrible performance in Modo is. He had a simple torus and was making some boolean cuts and it was chugging. So he has this workaround where he copies the cutter mesh to a new layer to make edits and then copies it back. Warren should try this workflow in blender, because he won't have these issues. We've got boxcutter and speedflow, etc. Lots of great addons for this kind of workflow. The only thing we don't have in blender is the rounded edge shader. I do miss that in blender. But blender does have a better bevel modifier. The bevel op in Modo is very finicky and tends to do very erratic things to your mesh. Farfarer did mention that they are working to fix that though.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    You can do basic math in modo's input fields (most if not all) too. I agree with the rest though; if you have a moderately complex boolean stack (ie one with subdivides involved) and try to edit the base mesh you get instant regret. Hopefully that will be improved. And yes better bevels. And a quad-chamfer style mesh-op...
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