[ONG] Offroad Racer - Indie Game Dev Log

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  • orontes
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    orontes triangle
    The current precision is not 100% perfect but very very high. Nothing to even slightly worry about and with the wheel using the helper position it is completely unnoticeable. Even when you zoom in all the way. To answer your question, the FBX export format does not nearly support all this nifty stuff my brother used in 3ds max. Even if it would, you would not gain much or anything.

    This is because of the math involved. Whenever you do IK or invert a function in a non analytical (non closed-form) way like i did in the engine or max does for IK, you only have an approximation. This is true in 3ds max as well. Even "look at" is not 100% perfect all the time and more complex inverse stuff only gets worse. This is a fundamental issue. This part of mathematics is called "numerical analysis" and it is used for nearly everything in the engine that is not straight forward. Even relatively simple stuff like the inverse of a 4th order polynomial does not have a closed-form and thereby perfect solution (This is unrelated to numerical calculus precision which is yet another problem).
  • Ckafee
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    Ckafee polycounter lvl 2
    orontes said:
    The current precision is not 100% perfect but very very high. Nothing to even slightly worry about and with the wheel using the helper position it is completely unnoticeable. Even when you zoom in all the way. To answer your question, the FBX export format does not nearly support all this nifty stuff my brother used in 3ds max. Even if it would, you would not gain much or anything.

    This is because of the math involved. Whenever you do IK or invert a function in a non analytical (non closed-form) way like i did in the engine or max does for IK, you only have an approximation. This is true in 3ds max as well. Even "look at" is not 100% perfect all the time and more complex inverse stuff only gets worse. This is a fundamental issue. This part of mathematics is called "numerical analysis" and it is used for nearly everything in the engine that is not straight forward. Even relatively simple stuff like the inverse of a 4th order polynomial does not have a closed-form and thereby perfect solution (This is unrelated to numerical calculus precision which is yet another problem).
    Allright i see. so rescripting the Solvers and the lookats are not worth the afford. Oke learned something today again:D thanks!

  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    Hi polycount,

    Long time no see. But we have been very busy. Here is some cool new stuff we have been working on:













  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    Hi guys,

    we have a freelance opportunity for you!

    Looking for a sound effect artist.

    Check out the details here:
    http://polycount.com/discussion/186258/paid-sound-effect-artist-freelance/p1?new=1
  • kanga
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    kanga polycounter lvl 10
    Looks great. I like the water drops on the lens when the vehicle goes through the wet. Are you planning on doing a first person option? With more tracks the mountains offer limitless possibilities.

    Top work man.
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    kanga said:
    Looks great. I like the water drops on the lens when the vehicle goes through the wet. Are you planning on doing a first person option?

    Thanks man!

    The steering wheel on the car is already turning and the cockpit is fully modeled so we will be playing around with a first person cam for sure.

    I´m still planting tons of trees and grass at this point. Next thing will be some shrubs.


  • Felixenfeu
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    Felixenfeu polycounter lvl 6
    Very promising project right there ! Killer hard surface, really looking forward to see more work on this.
  • AlecMoody
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    @AlecMoody : Thank you! Yes we will definitely release Q1 2018 on steam early access. We are a bit behind schedule. Originally it was planned to release in 2017, but it will be late January / early February 2018.
  • CybranM
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    CybranM polycounter lvl 5
    those damage effects! whole project looks awesome :smile:
    Looking forward to seeing this project progress
  • AlexCatMasterSupreme
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    AlexCatMasterSupreme polycounter lvl 6
    Sick car, I love watching the suspension, I want to play this. 
  • MmAaXx
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    MmAaXx polycounter lvl 4
    this is super amazing guys!
    can I ask you guys how do you add the high frequency details to the terrain? do you use some rgb mask?

    *edit*
    ok I read about the vertex color, so on top of the baked big textures from world machine you also use vertex color to blend materials?
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    @MmAaXx :

    We separate the track surface from the terrain. The track uses two materials which are blended by vertex. These materials have high-mid-frequency information in them. Tiling on these mats is very poor (intentionally), why we need two mats to break the tiling.

    On the terrain we use 3-4 materials which are optimized for large application (good tiling). They are applied by splat map from world machine and improved by painting in editor.

    To hide the poly edge where the terrain meets the track surface, we use a transition decal which overlaps the terrain aprox 1 meter and uses the same materials and UV as the track surface. It is faded out by vertex alpha.

    On top of the track we use larger decals to give certain areas more uniqueness.

    Thank you!


  • aclund3
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    aclund3 polycounter lvl 3
    Your vehicle looks amazing. I want to play it in Rocket League :)

    Thank you both for taking the time to share your development. This is a super interesting project and I love seeing how an Indie Developer has to work through things with only 2 people. Keep at it fellas!
  • MmAaXx
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    MmAaXx polycounter lvl 4
  • nathdevlin
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    nathdevlin polycounter lvl 7
    How did I miss this Thread, brilliant work from you guys so far. Really thorough breakdowns and WIP info. 
  • Optimus
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    Optimus vertex
    WOW nice graphics!! looks amazing
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    Thank you all for your amazing feedback!! It really helps us to push the game further every day.
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    all lights on green :)



    I also implemented a distance structure on the second race track which gives the player better orientation and sense of direction. The level also looks much bigger now. The tower is inspired by the movie Waterworld.



  • cupsster
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    cupsster polycounter lvl 8
    This thing is awesome project. Subscribed! :)
  • HansEberhart™
    If you've got time to do so, could you describe what your engines renderpass looks like?
    For instance do you use a deferred renderer or a forward(+ maybe?) renderer. How do you create your reflections, do you use PBR? etc. Would be super interesting :)
  • Toku
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    Toku polycounter lvl 5
    You guys are awesome! Good to know that there are people as motivated as you out there, looking forward to playing your game when its out
  • Aga22
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    Aga22 polycounter lvl 5
    i LOOOOOVE the designs of your vehicles! great work!
  • cgstrive
    Thanks for sharing! Very impressive and inspirational. Foliage renders great also. Assuming it is premade, which pack is used?
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    cgstrive said:
    Thanks for sharing! Very impressive and inspirational. Foliage renders great also. Assuming it is premade, which pack is used?

    The dead tree and the Chlorophytum are from Megascans.
    Apart from that it was a ton of work:





  • orontes
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    orontes triangle
    Hi,
    If you've got time to do so, could you describe what your engines renderpass looks like?
    For instance do you use a deferred renderer or a forward(+ maybe?) renderer. How do you create your reflections, do you use PBR? etc. Would be super interesting :)

    We do not have many dynamic lights in our scenes and as far as i know most racing games tend towards forward+ renderers because of this and the complex car surface materials. In contrast we use a deferred render approach. This is mainly because of the awesome feature of deferred decals which we use in our nature levels a lot to hide poly seams and more. This is probably the single most important feature of deferred systems that you simply can not have in any forward renderer. We make use of what is called clustered deferred shading.

    Our render passes are done in a graph with an automatic system for buffer allocation, reuse and render pass order. This allows us to simple change the graph based on graphics settings and more while still maintaining an optimal buffer usage. In total we have around 55 different render passes.

    We do use PBR for everything including a modern GGX (Trowbridge-Reitz) NDF with Schlick Fresnel and Smith Geometric Shadowing which is pretty standard nowadays. Just for the diffuse we have something special, which is an approximation of disney's diffuse instead of the usual Lambert. We do have many extensions for what we call turbo roughness for the terrain and translucency or unlit for foliage though. Maybe we can show some in a later post.

    For the reflections we use screen space reflections with a HiZ (but i am not entirely convinced by this yet) and ordinary reflections cube map probes as fallback.

    Thank you all for the encouraging feedback.





  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    I made another tutorial about suspension rigging because apparently the other video was not clear for beginners and didn´t show the basic  process well enough.

    Mesh provided by @wladimyxp who asked for this tutorial.



  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    Hi,

    We reworked the track surface ....again. :) But we are happy with the latest results. Let me know what you think. Here is a quick overview what it looks like at the moment and how we did this.



    We still use the two base materials which are blended by vertex color like before. On top we use a parallax decal with a tileable tire track texture.



    The decals are layed out where the racing line is. I use a spline and path deform for this. The borders are faded out by vertex alpha. Otherwise the outside edges would be visible. We also use vertex alpha to have more or less visible tire tracks in some areas e.g. braking points.



    For the water puddles we use the heightmap information that is also used for the parallax effect and the vertex color (red) in case we want a water puddle in this area. Higher values equal higher water levels. Because the water shader is more expensive we also seperate the water areas by applying a different material ID to the polys with vertex color (red). We use the standard parallax shader on dry areas to keep the performance up.



    Hope you like the new surface! We have a lot more updates coming soon!



  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    Hi Polycount!

    We are honored to be featured on 80 level



    Where we finally revelead the name of the game!

    Stay tuned for more updates and behind the scenes.
    Feel free to ask any questions!
  • Ged
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    Ged polycounter lvl 11
    incredible work! hope I get to tear around that mucky track in that cool car someday! Those red plants look huge, are they really that size in real life? Ive never seen any like that, almost seems like something out of avatar when they are that big.
  • jwsargent_me
    This looks so amazing, when do we get an Alpha test  :o

  • s1dK
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    s1dK greentooth
    Congratz guys, waiting for the game early acces:>:>
  • macoll
  • Fisher007
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    Fisher007 polycounter lvl 4
    I'm still in shock. I honestly can't comprehend how 2 devs can make something as good as what studios with huge teams make, let alone a whole engine that is on par with any single modern engine I have seen so far. You guys are either time travelers or have cheat-codes for development.  :# Can't wait to see what you have on the game design side. Keep up the great work! :) 
     
  • timschumi
    Nice project you got there! Those graphics and details are among the best I have ever seen.

    I have three questions concerning this game:
     - Is multiplayer between a Linux machine and a Windows machine supported (or are there plans to get it working if it doesn't already)?
     - Will there be a demo to test if a PC has enough power to run this game?
    - Will steering wheels (maybe even with force feedback) be supported?

    Regardless of the outcome of those questions, I'll definitely buy a copy of this game as soon as it is out.

    Keep up the good work!
  • limatangoalpha
    Very impressive work, especially for a small team, congrats!

    Definitely looking forward to Early Access but concerned DRAG will struggle at ~$30 with limited content (1 car, 3 tracks).

    Other than multiplayer which other features will be available initially?

    Personally I would love any of the following to help stand-out:

    • Visual Customization (e.g. body artwork, attachments like spoilers/bullbars/mud guards/lamps/skirts/splitters)
    • Single & Multiplayer (e.g. AI vehicles)
    • Dynamic Racing (e.g. light shafts temporarily distract, lamp damage affects night visibility, track debris)
    • Dynamic VFX (e.g. ground spray from dirt/grass/puddles, tire dirt/clean, falling leaves on impact)

    Many thanks in advance.
  • defragger
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    defragger greentooth
    Very impressive work, especially for a small team, congrats!

    Definitely looking forward to Early Access but concerned DRAG will struggle at ~$30 with limited content (1 car, 3 tracks).

    Other than multiplayer which other features will be available initially?

    Thank you for your concerns.
    Big game companies tend to announce a lot more features than their game will actually have.

    We are not a big game company ;)

    True, we have limited content. but I can safely say that (1 car, 3 tracks) is a false assumption.

    I hope everything will be clear once the Steam store page goes live.
  • limatangoalpha
    Hi Thorsten,

    defragger said:

    True, we have limited content. but I can safely say that (1 car, 3 tracks) is a false assumption.

    That's great to hear, looking forward to the announcement(s) nearer release.

    Happy to support most games where Linux is a first-class citizen. :)
  • orontes
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    orontes triangle
    Hi timschumi,

    thank you in advance for your support.
    Yes we do have racing across Linux and Windows.
    We do not plan to release a demo but a PC matching or exceeding the specs given should work fine.
    It runs well for us on an Intel Core i5 and a NVIDIA GTX 660 with the graphics settings from the screenshots at 1080p with around 60fps.
    Under Linux we also tested the Mesa driver for AMD cards and it worked too. I am still a bit shy to call it officially supported, though.
    Regarding steering wheel support we are not sure yet. I do have a Logitech wheel here and it does work technically but the game was never intended to be played with a wheel. But it drives wonderfully with a gamepad and we do have very nice force feedback support for gamepads too.
  • Jazuure
    i see that the response of the steering wheels is quite quick and nimble.
    thank you for not following the nonsensical trend of steering dampening.

    also thanks for penguin OS support.
     i will definitely support your game
  • The_Benjamins
    This is looking amazing, I had a few questions though.
    are there or are there plans to have soft body physics on the tires to simulate how the deforms when you drive, turn, land?
    What is the state for terrain physics, can object be broken (bushes, fences), does the ground wear or have mud physics (kinda like spintires)?
  • johnperkins899
    Looks awesome. Have participated in few game developments too. Don't forget that you can run a crowdfunding campaign, so it would be easier to add some cool features to the game then. Good luck!
  • johnperkins899
    Looks awesome. Have participated in few game developments too. Don't forget that you can run a crowdfunding campaign, so it would be easier to add some cool features to the game then. Good luck!
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    That tire deformation is amazing!! Kind of details i woulndt have noticed at first but that's still so important for the overall feeling
  • johnperkins899
    Olingova said:
    That tire deformation is amazing!! Kind of details i woulndt have noticed at first but that's still so important for the overall feeling

    Yeah, looks awesome! I like such details.
  • pixelpatron
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    pixelpatron polycounter lvl 5
    This is looking mighty damn fine! I'd love to see your next vid with 18 racers running though a course! Challenge accepted?
  • Jack M.
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    Jack M. polycounter lvl 5
    This is a really fantastic project. That tire deformation is sexy as hell!
  • Oleg
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    Oleg polycounter lvl 10
    Wow amazing stuff ! Very interesting workflow for creating road with terrains! Speaking of it do you guys know about GeoGlyph2 for WM? They also have some nice ways to create color for terrains and some other cool stuff. Anyway keep up the good work and can't wait to see more :O



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