Artstation and tits

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Gadorian
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Gadorian polycounter lvl 3
WTF? I just went on Artstation to get some inspiration and to see what's new, and the front page is riddled with tits, asses and chicks in suggestive poses with little to no clothes. My question is - do artists do these kind of pieces for views? I mean, you look into any of these pieces, and they have thousands of views and likes, then there are some stunning environments, sculpts, and some beautiful art in general, that once you hold for more than a second and appreciate the work and thought that has been put into it, and they have little to no views and likes, like wtf? Do people just scroll through works, see tits and upvote? I mean, if I want people to notice my work, should I add tits to everything? It's just the idea that I'm getting from watching Artstation feed.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

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  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 2
    It's a trend I've noticed too; consistently around half my feed is like that every time I check. There's no practical value to it though; work like that won't help you find a client/employer. It's just up-votes from random ogglers.
    Ordinarily, anyway... I've heard that people who commission pornographic works make obscene amounts of money, whereas normal commissioned artists often struggle to get by.
    Just try keeping your sanity with requests like that, though. I've heard some things... Sonic-themed pseudo-bestiality is just the sprinkles on top of a many layered cake of exponentially increasing insanity.
  • Burpee
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    Burpee polycounter lvl 2
    pior said:
    I'd say don't worry about it. Ignore the "like" and "comments" metrics (not only when related to your own work, but also and especially when it comes to other's people work !) - just upload your art up there to get a nice clean link that you can then easily pass around when needed. But also post your art in places that you think are relevant (that is to say : with a target audience that will be receptive to your work). This will spread your art around, little by little, to the right places and viewers.

    Sadly like and comment give you visibility and visibility give you jobs, I heard loads of story of people finding jobs right after being picked or top-rowed on zBrush Central.

  • pior
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    pior interpolator
    Burpee said:

    Sadly like and comment give you visibility and visibility give you jobs, I heard loads of story of people finding jobs right after being picked or top-rowed on zBrush Central.

    I'd frame it another way. These people who got that job, got it because their work was so good that it got them to front row. The quality is the enabler, and from there anything goes. Sure, nicely rendered tits and asses might get one to the top of the Artstation page. But that's not going to interest an art director who is looking for a weapon concept artist. So I think that worrying about the filtering/curating system of popular forums and art websites is kindof a moot point. Kim Jung Gi only needed only a few Facebook posts in korean to go from unknown art teacher to world famous gallery artist ...
  • Burpee
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    Burpee polycounter lvl 2
    You're a 100% right, maybe I was just trying to say that if bewbs have always thousand of like, the " normal " guy posting his artwork will always be hidden under theses " click bait artwork " if that even make sense. 
  • Burpee
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    Burpee polycounter lvl 2
    I've clicked on so many dumpsters and barrels that were labeled mature, get's me every time.
    This made my day.
  • mats effect
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    This might be the best thread title ever.
  • xvampire
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    xvampire polycounter lvl 10
    totally fine with tits, 
    probably you only browse around community and trending, 
    Artstation  Editor picks and top row just doing fine . thanks to Artstation robust editorials :) . keeping it classy not saturated to one style. 


  • Gadorian
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    Gadorian polycounter lvl 3
  • Chimp
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    Chimp polycounter lvl 5
    oh my, titties! its unfathomable that people actually like sexuality, given its one of the most fundamental human drives. If you don't like what a lot of people like (as evidenced by a lot of people making that sort of content), then subscribe to artists who don't and use that feed :/ It's not click bait, its fun to make and look at. That's not cool though, fun is for the mindless masses, you're smarter than that.

    As it turns out though, most of art station isnt actually tits and arse, but a lot of it hits the front page because its what a lot of people like :) And as it happens, on the front page right now for me there's a nude muscly bloke and a woman eating food. she does in fact have tits, as women do, and large ones as women who eat a lot too, but frankly i think is a great piece. It isn't a stereotypical woman, it isn't overtly focused on the sex and its full of character. BUT THEN, there's just as many animals, creatures, monsters, celebrity likenesses, environments, props, FX, and everything else. in fact my main feed is quite balanced. you've invented something to moan about imo. As it happens the bloke has massive muscles.

    Lets get real now: You ask if you should add tits to make your work stand out? How about doing some work first. Your artstation has the default unreal character with 4 triangle batman ears tacked on with some emissive text, a room, a corridor and a playing card. hardly engaging, enthusing or amazing artwork. Less moaning, more arting :)
  • Melazee
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    Melazee Polycount Sponsor
    Haha, my friend and I had a game where you had to see how far down the Artstation front page you could get by finding one "boob/butt art" image in each row. As soon as you find a row with none, game over. Can't remember how far down we ended up now. But hey, Artstation is very tame compared to deviantart. You should check out that front page some day. 

    It's always going to happen though, this kind of stuff. Sex sells! No point worrying about something out of your control, just focus on replacing it with badass art you yourself want to see by liking and commenting lots (people don't comment nowhere near enough on Artstation, I think that is a bigger issue!).

    I myself don't model that kind of stuff, perhaps to a disadvantage popularity wise ;) But ah well. My philosophy is to just make what you want to see. 
  • Chillydog3D
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    Chillydog3D polycounter lvl 4
    Absolutely Haram Lads. We need 50% more dicks on Art Station. Whip out Zbrush and start stroking out those pieces!

  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 2
    Damn, some of you guys got REAL defensive fast. He never said anything about it being immoral to depict nudity.
    The concern is that images of naked women seem to get disproportionally more views/likes than anything else without regard for the actual quality or complexity of the work, at the expense of such higher quality works.
    There's a finite amount of space on that front page, and if it's filled with random "Oooh, boobies!", then that's less room for higher quality work that by all rights should be there.
  • EarthQuake
    Grimwolf said:
    Damn, some of you guys got REAL defensive fast. He never said anything about it being immoral to depict nudity.
    The concern is that images of naked women seem to get disproportionally more views/likes than anything else without regard for the actual quality or complexity of the work, at the expense of such higher quality works.
    There's a finite amount of space on that front page, and if it's filled with random "Oooh, boobies!", then that's less room for higher quality work that by all rights should be there.
    Right, and this has historically been a problem with other sites like CGHub before it went away, where it had gotten to the point where the same guy was simply recoloring the same half naked chick and getting top row'ed over and over. Regardless of your moralistic views on sexuality I think that it's pretty easy to see how that is problematic. 

    ArtStation's staff does a pretty good job with their curated sections, like Picks, where they tend to highlight a very nice range of work, while still showing the occasional T&A when the quality merits it.
  • stickadtroja
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    stickadtroja polycounter lvl 6
    this is why i think content promotion by popularity, views and likes works really bad. its art after all, its subjective, what everybody likes should be irrelevant for the most part. i dont want my content to be sorted by the views of others, at least not large amounts of strangers on the internet
  • Melazee
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    Exactly, and I agree with @earthquake The Picks section is a great idea to curate it more. It doesn't completely filter it out, but it offers a place to go if you don't want to be flooded with that stuff. The people who do like that stuff also have the choice to see it. Fair for all! 

    But yeah. I'm pretty sure this has been a thing not only throughout the history of online art galleries, but throughout history in general. We can't control what other people like, but we can control what we like, where we look and what we want to see. Like I said before - fave and comment more, share artwork you like to other people so they can also fave and comment and push it to the front page, and post artwork you have done that you want to see on the front page. 

    Or, just make your own art gallery website and heavily curate it. Either way :P It probably wouldn't be too popular though. 

    EDIT- In fact, one of the few things I liked about deviantART was the "More Like This" section, which features more artwork similar to the one you are looking at. That way, you always have stuff similar to what you already like shown to you that you've never seen before. This could be nice for Artstation, to showcase more unknown work.
  • pangaea
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    pangaea polycounter lvl 3
    What is the definition of tits and arse here?

    Just wondering as I've scrolled down a couple of pages of artstation and there is no tits and arse. 
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 2
    pangaea said:
    What is the definition of tits and arse here?

    Just wondering as I've scrolled down a couple of pages of artstation and there is no tits and arse. 
    You must have gotten lucky then, because I just loaded it up to check, and on the first page alone I counted 7 straight-up naked women, and over a dozen "pretty lady posing" type pieces.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    pangaea said:
    What is the definition of tits and arse here?

    Just wondering as I've scrolled down a couple of pages of artstation and there is no tits and arse. 
    Click on the trending tab
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
  • radiancef0rge
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    meta clickbait
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 4
    Yeah I count more than 2 there where it is clear that the artist has tried to draw attention to that area.
  • Grimwolf
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    Grimwolf polycounter lvl 2
    RobeOmega said:
    Yeah I count more than 2 there where it is clear that the artist has tried to draw attention to that area.
    None of them are full-blown naked, but I counted at least 10 obviously pandering with sexuality.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    Grimwolf said:
    RobeOmega said:
    Yeah I count more than 2 there where it is clear that the artist has tried to draw attention to that area.
    None of them are full-blown naked, but I counted at least 10 obviously pandering with sexuality.
    That's because the one with nudity is hidden behind the mature content warning.
  • Joopson
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    So, more than two have boobs and/or butts, but honestly, none of them strike me as boob/butt art. Nothing overtly or ridiculously sexual there. Seems like people are nitpicking and stretching definitions to make the problem seem worse than it is.

    I agree that artstation is full of stuff I would consider boob/butt art, but that screenshot isn't showing it.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    Good lord this is getting pedantic. I don't have any issues with nudity or sexualized imagery but it doesn't take much more than a firm grasp of the obvious to recognize that it is popular.

    To the original poster, if you are concerned that your work won't get attention if you don't put tits on it then I would say don't worry about it. Some suject matter and styles will always be more popular than others which is why some of the highest earning patreon artists rely heavily on fanart.

    If your work is good people will recognize it and appreciate it, maybe not as many as if you drew a bunch of funbags but so what? You have different audiences, they've got their thing and you've got yours.


  • RyanB
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    I'm disappointed there ism't more boob arts... especially after clicking this thread.


  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    I pride myself in not following trends. More freedom to be original and take risks. It's also a matter of what you enjoy doing.

    If you're doing something for just the views what becomes the end goal? To keep making the same stuff over and over just to be on the front page?
  • NoRank
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    NoRank triangle
    This never really pissed me off actually. I don't usually see the trends tabs thought. I usually go through the community tab and the picks tab and they seem ok to me.

    Still gotta remember when overwatch was just released, Tracer's ass was all over the place haha.

    Idk, still most of these arts are pretty well drawn so I can't really complain.
  • Jakob Gavelli
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    Jakob Gavelli polycounter lvl 4
    To be honest If I could, I would like to have checkboxes for categories. So I can include and exclude whatever I like. So that I can just exclude all weapons and characters. I've just become so jaded that I can't appreciate even the good 2d character art anymore.
    Like, it does nothing for me. In that screenshot there may not be that much tits and ass, but there's alot of pictures of girls. About 1/3 of the pictures?
    The content is quite one-sided. I mostly look at Artstation for inspiration for my own work and as a non-character artist I don't get inspired by that stuff, or atleast very rarely.

    Anyway, I don't care and there's only so many times you can see dressed down versions of the Overwatch characters or whatever, haha.  
    I don't think it's a problem, I understand that through all of history portraits and sculptures of women have been an effective way of portraying alot of different emotions and narratives. I just wish I had more control over the filters on Artstation. =)

    If you start adding boobs to your artwork I'd say that's fine :P I'm not sure how you'd add them to a sci-fi corridor but, hey! Whatever you do to get by in this industry is fair game if you ask me or don't go against your own moral standards. 
  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    I wouldn`t care too much, 2D artists will always have an easier time getting more likes since they can finish stuff faster
    doesn`t have to be tits and asses.

    in the end stuff that aren`t good won`t get many likes even if it`s tits and asses.

    Would love to be able to filter out what I don`t want see at the moment though.
  • Chimp
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    Chimp polycounter lvl 5
    Grimwolf said:
    The concern is that images of naked women seem to get disproportionally more views/likes than anything else without regard for the actual quality or complexity of the work, at the expense of such higher quality works.
    There's a finite amount of space on that front page, and if it's filled with random "Oooh, boobies!", then that's less room for higher quality work that by all rights should be there.
    Yes because a 'like' measures the quality of the artwork. OH MY! CHART MUSIC GETS MORE LIKES THAN MY FAVOURITE SUPER SRS INDEPENDENT FOLK SONGWRITER!!! Sexual imagery is just liked more because people like it more. Thing is though, its not like other stuff doesn't get likes - go have a look at rolegio or someone and see their entirely tits-free texture work racking up the likes.

    As for finite space and 'higher quality work': what, boobs make it inherently lower quality? Come on. It's about popularity not quality, and it's measured by how many people clicked the button, its not some conspiracy is it? For what it's worth, go look at the picks section, where artstation editors specifically choose what goes there, and see a good balance of all kinds of content. 



    ---

    As for Earthquake's suggestion that people post sexualised work to get views - yeah some perhaps but I don't think people spend 100 hours on a tits if they don't want to make tits. Generally these people that are on the front page have large back catalogues of work, its not like its tits on a whim they generally have clearly studied the female form because that's their thing. You imply that people do it for clicks but I've not met a decent artist that works for other people's attention in that way, crap ones yeah but those that get decent enough to make the front page are generally so far as i can tell making the work first and foremost because thats the work they enjoy making and that is clearly evidenced by them having done a hell of a lot of it. some of these people have 10 years worth of work. I don't know if you make work with likes in mind, but I just make what I like and I think a lot of us do. 

    As for people's reaction to OP? It's easy and alt-cool to complain about sexualisation or similar things, but unless you've got a strong, well thought out and substantial argument, you're going to get ripped apart because it isn't really a valid complaint. He's complaining about things people popular that are popular. Mcdonalds is popular despite my mum's fantastic home cooking, and gordon ramsey's fantastic restaurants. 
  • ZacD
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    ZacD polycounter lvl 7
    Got it, tits are the McDonald's of art.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycounter lvl 12
    they should rename it to boob station
  • Jakob Gavelli
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    Jakob Gavelli polycounter lvl 4
    As chimp said. It's about popularity not quality. It's called "Trending" and the clue is kind of in the title. 
    It's not only tits and ass that is popular. I mean, someone with alot of followers can post a beveled cube or intentionally bad art and get lots of likes and comments or whatever and hit the front page. Quality is often popular, but not always.

    I don't think we're going to come to a conclusion whether or not this is good or bad for the industry. It's not like this is a new or unique topic, people have forever been asking what they should put in their portfolios and everyone has to market themselves to what people want and find popular? 
    Those threads has mostly been answered with "Do what you enjoy doing, but it has to sell.". 

  • fdfxd2
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    fdfxd2 triangle
    Maybe I'm not seeing what you see but,
    I don't see any T&A

    I wouldn't rule out the possibility that you notice them more because you are looking for them more.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    New meme

    Take a screenshot of ArtStation and post it with the caption "I don't see any tits"
  • slipsius
    tits and bums get you more views and likes. They also get you more hate. 

    Just do you. 
  • EarthQuake
    Chimp said:
    As for Earthquake's suggestion that people post sexualised work to get views - yeah some perhaps but I don't think people spend 100 hours on a tits if they don't want to make tits. Generally these people that are on the front page have large back catalogues of work, its not like its tits on a whim they generally have clearly studied the female form because that's their thing. You imply that people do it for clicks but I've not met a decent artist that works for other people's attention in that way, crap ones yeah but those that get decent enough to make the front page are generally so far as i can tell making the work first and foremost because thats the work they enjoy making and that is clearly evidenced by them having done a hell of a lot of it. some of these people have 10 years worth of work. I don't know if you make work with likes in mind, but I just make what I like and I think a lot of us do. 
    I'm not sure how many people create T&A style artwork solely to get views, probably very few, that wasn't what I was suggesting, but it is probably a consideration in some case (I don't read minds so I won't specular further). I think the main reason people create any type of subject matter is because they like it, when it comes to personal work - for professional work, it's because someone pays you to do it, this sounds obvious it's sort of weird that I need to type it out.

    As I said, people post all kinds of artwork on ArtStation to get views and likes, that's the whole point. Certain subject matters, like the female form, tend to be more likely to be popular than other subjects, even when looking at pieces with equivalent quality. Again, we can come to this conclusion without attaching any sort of value judgement to the merit of the work.

    Let's try a basic thought experiment. Take a badass, well known artist. Have him or her draw two female characters. One is exceptionally attractive, wearing skimpy clothes, and posed in a suggestive manner. The other is a normal looking woman, dressed in modest clothing in a more natural, every day pose. Let's say both pieces are executed to the same level and equally interesting. Which one do you think will be more popular?

    The answer is pretty clear to me. Honestly, I don't even see this as a problem, that the general public will tend to react more to the sexualized image. It's more like a phenomenon, which is interesting to think about detached from any moral discussion. 

    I do think it has the potential to become problematic when work is created specifically to pander to that reaction. IMO creating work to pander (be it sexy girls or any subject matter) is bad for a number of reasons - it's a cop out, it breads monoculture, it reduces individual creativity, etc. Luckily I don't think we're at any real danger of this overtaking the art community, there are enough artists out there that do their own thing that it really isn't a big deal. Now before someone takes this paragraph the wrong way and flips to some absurd conclusion let me clarify one thing: I do not think that drawing sexy girls is  pandering it its own right, drawing sexy girls specifically to get views would be. Drawing Starwars fan art specifically to get views is also pandering, as is <insert any other topic here>.
  • pior
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    pior interpolator
     What I find interesting is the way these sort of conversations always seem to create the biggest misunderstandings.

    Someone wondering how come there is quite a lot of [insert name of the thing] somewhere, doesn't mean that this person is against [insert name of the thing], enjoys [insert name of the thing], would like to see less of [insert name of the thing], or enjoys rubbing their face against [insert name of the thing]. This is just a question, without any value judgement besides the one one wants to apply to it after the fact (and of course since this is The Internet Of 201X ... be offended by it).

    So as said, while I don't think there is any point in being concerned by it I think it is still a fascinating phenomenon to observe. If anything it shows that when not directed by a strict set of limitations guiding their hand (art direction, or being paid to do something specific as EQ pointed it out), lots of artists kind of revert to similar topics which I suppose is only natural - but arguably, not always super exciting. And while the individual pictures definitely all have their own merits, seeing such a juxtaposition of eerily similar work, especially in thumbnail form, does look repetitive. It simply brings up the good old question of whether artistic expression is about depicting something pretty, or, focusing on the effect regardless of the subject matter.
  • rohMizuno
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    I am scared of the day Artstation will be implementing the google algorithm and only show you artworks based on your web history.
    Or maybe we will still be seeing only boobs and wooden floors after that.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    rohMizuno said:
    I am scared of the day Artstation will be implementing the google algorithm and only show you artworks based on your web history.
    Or maybe we will still be seeing only boobs and wooden floors after that.
    Privacy Badger already blocks all of Artstations hotlinked images for me due to tracking attempts so we may not be far from that.
  • Melazee
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    rohMizuno said:
    I am scared of the day Artstation will be implementing the google algorithm and only show you artworks based on your web history.
    Or maybe we will still be seeing only boobs and wooden floors after that.
    My Artstation feed would be entirely full of cute baby bats, cactus models and Peter Capaldi and I would be okay with this.
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