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Learning Modo by myself...give me some input, please.

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ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
Hi, folks.

I work two jobs. I am a background actor...meaning I am an extra. And I am a manager at a small clothing store in a ghetto area in Inland Empire, So Cal. I usually spend 12 hours plus 1 hour lunch time and 2 hour commuting time on the set. And I usually work 3~4 days a week as an extra. And as a store manager I work at least 10 hours a day with 1 hour commuting time. And I work at least 2 days a week. I usually sleep anywhere between 5.5~7 hours a night.

And someone told me that I need 7200 hours of experience with CG to become just about to be proficient. I am about to cry in sorrow.

Since this July I slowly started learning Modo, and 3DCG in general. I did have some experience with MAX back in...1997 and Softimage in 1998, so that left me some bad taste in learning CG. I practically gave up for many years and now I am dabbling into CG.

No wonder why some people tell me to give up CG. Yeah, it's really tough to make time (4 full hours a day) to study. You know, I am not a risk taker and I often give up easily, since small beginner's mistakes in my childhood were dealt with violent punishments and abuses. (well, what I can say...I was raised in South Korea and corporal punishment & verbal abuse are integral part of the society...)

But this time I really hate to give up no matter how clueless I am in learning CG. Yeah, things are intimidating. But for some reason I hate to give up. I am learning Modo in a snail's pace and I find lack of learning materials in Modo kinda disappointing. I need to figure out a lot of things myself. It's tough.

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  • bounchfx
    hi ambelamba,

    that sounds rough. I will say outright that you don't need anywhere near 7200 hours of experience with CG to 'just be proficient'. It really depends what your goals are with CG and if you are looking to do games or movies, a particular style or subject matter, etc. The biggest issue it looks like you have to face is your schedule. If you're able to find even just 1-2 hours every other day, but are persistent about it, you should see progress for sure.

    you mention you've chosen modo - If you're still just learning the ropes with it then it might be worth checking out Tor Frick's tutorial 'Introduction to Modo'. It's five dollars and is available here https://gumroad.com/snefer though you could also probably find good starter tutorials on Youtube, though most of them will probably be geared towards max or maya due to their bigger user bases. Modo is known to be an exceptional modeling tool though so there's no issue with your choice.

    I'd say the most important thing is that you enjoy learning it and can see yourself wanting to spend time creating things in 3d, the rest will come, just be persistent and if you have questions people here are usually more than willing to help.
  • Bek
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    Bek interpolator
    What specifically are you trying to do? You may be feeling that progress is slow because you're trying to run before you can walk: Start your goals small and build up from there.

    I also recommend this guy's youtube channel — He's like the Bob Ross of modo.
  • MagicSugar
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    MagicSugar polycounter lvl 10
    Check your local library. They might offer free access to lynda.com so if you have a library card number and pin you can just log in at home or anywhere you want to watch and learn. There's some basic modo series in there plus autodesk, zbrush and blender lessons.
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
    I want to mostly hard surface stuff first and stick with it for a while. I started out by studying studio art with tons of figure drawings, but I always loved to draw and design robots.

    Now I am kinda stuck in a rut and need to build a new skill just to keep my brain rolling. Actually that was the very reason why I started learning CG recently. Some of my family members started showing signs of Alzheimer's disease and I got scared. One way to prevent it is to work my brain a lot. I know that it sounds funny but I started learning CG just to keep my brain working. Then I started thinking about using CG to work on my concept design...
  • cgBrad
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    cgBrad polycounter lvl 5
    Personally you sound like a poo poo cry job. Life is hard. Learning is hard. Mastering is hard. If any idiot could pick up 3d software and get paid, anyone would do it. But it is not the case. Work hard, learn it, get it done, or eat a bag of shit, or lose out.
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    cgBrad wrote: »
    Personally you sound like a poo poo cry job. Life is hard. Learning is hard. Mastering is hard. If any idiot could pick up 3d software and get paid, anyone would do it. But it is not the case. Work hard, learn it, get it done, or eat a bag of shit, or lose out.

    How empathetic. Have you considered doing motivational speaking or a TED talk?
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    Most importantly, tackle small projects. The biggest source of frustration is projects that you didn't finish or that didn't meet your own expectations. Rather build a phone booth than Leopard tank.
  • SurlyBird
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    SurlyBird polycounter lvl 13
    As others have pointed out, there are plenty of online tutorials, training videos and the like out there. What you may not know is that there is also a book that might help you:

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-modo-Authorized-Trenches/dp/0240811992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442764343&sr=8-1&keywords=Real+World+Modo"]http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-modo-Authorized-Trenches/dp/0240811992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442764343&sr=8-1&keywords=Real+World+Modo[/ame]


    This book is quite dated, but it's not a bad introduction to Modo. Maybe you can pick up a used copy for cheap somewhere. It covers most of Modo's major modeling & texturing methodologies as well as some stuff on rendering.

    I'm not recommending it based on its 'current-ness' but rather on it's clear and simple writing style, which seems to be what you need. It's not written from an uber-technical, inside-baseball perspective, but from a practical "Let's get some work done" vantage point.

    It's not an exhaustive Modo bible. It mainly goes over core tools and workflow techniques. I think it's a decent introduction to the meat-and-potatoes of Modo which is its modeling paradigm. It does not cover Modo's newer tools (like true rigging or animation) as those features didn't exist in Modo when this book was written and published, but it will get you familiar with the main tool set.

    Even if the book doesn't strike a chord, my advice is to just keep at it. Do a little bit every day and when you cross your frustration threshold, back off, take a walk or do something you enjoy for a bit and then come back and try it again. Never practice frustration...unless you can return to a tranquil, open mind.

    Another book to check out, although it is not necessarily Modo-specific, is William Vaughn's Digital Modeling book:

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Modeling-William-Vaughan/dp/0321700899/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442765351&sr=8-1&keywords=William+Vaughn+modeling"]Digital Modeling: 9780321700896: Computer Science Books @ Amazon.com[/ame]

    Mr. Vaughn posts here from time to time, I think. He's got a lot of good advice on modeling, attitude and the like, and is a bonafide Modo guru. Look him up on the Modo forums and feel free to ask him questions. He's very eager to help.

    Work hard, be patient and kind with yourself and keep at it.
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
    I think I have a copy of Real World Modo somewhere in my house. I am not sure. And I just purchased a Kindle copy of Digital Modeling. I'll start reading the book soon.

    Sometimes I wonder why there are relatively few learning resources for Modo comparing to other tools. Maybe I am horribly wrong but I suspect that Modo is intended for people who have had sufficient training in other tools who want an easier one. Probably that's why there are relatively small amount of beginners' guide out there...Maybe I am wrong.

    I finally got some dayoff today and tomorrow. I woke up today very early and created a couple of different meshes. I did some errand and now I am back home. Maybe I should dig into my storage room and look for my copy of Real World Modo after a nap. I don't get enough sleep.

    One major weakness I have right now is the skill to clean up the messy topology. I keep forgetting about many tools and often I have no clue what to do with mangled meshes. Some unintended holes and unnecessary vertices end up popping up somewhere.

    And I realized that having some reference really helps me plan how to approach for modeling. What I enjoy is planning ahead in my head although they often fail. It doesn't matter since it's a brain exercise, which was the original reason why went back to CG.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Sometimes I wonder why there are relatively few learning resources for Modo comparing to other tools. Maybe I am horribly wrong but I suspect that Modo is intended for people who have had sufficient training in other tools who want an easier one. Probably that's why there are relatively small amount of beginners' guide out there...Maybe I am wrong.

    There is less training material about Modo compared to other apps simply because it has less market penetration. Simple as that :)
    What I enjoy is planning ahead in my head although they often fail.

    Planning in one's head is fine, but don't rely on this too much, otherwise you'll end doing the same thing over and over again without much progress. Test things out first (by putting together reference sheets, planning your designs for real, and so on), and establish firm end goals. Also, try to avoid overlaps between execution tasks (How do I clean up this mesh ? How do I solve this topology issue) and design tasks (What am I making ? What is the intention behind this design ?). These are two very different things, but the raw fun of manipulating things in 3D space sometimes causes artists to forget the fundamental distinction - and then we end up with an abundance of alien busts and robots with square heads :)
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    There are enough resources to get started on Modo but like everything it just takes some time and practice.

    I have to ask though, why continue to be an extra? Unless you have an agent, funnel money into SAG/AFTRA and are planning on being an actor full time... its just a waste of time. The pay isnt even worth it. If being a pro actor is the goal, then its all about networking. Who you know is more important than how many times you become a non SAG/AFTRA background object.

    In my personal experience, CG is far more rewarding, both in terms of personal accomplishment and employment for quality of work. Cut out the highly abused extra work and funnel it into CG.
  • Blond
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    Blond polycounter lvl 9
    Argh, in my opinion, I think you took the worst software to learn by yourself (without payed tutorial at least)..

    Just likeHoudini, Modo suffers form the lac of proper free reoussrcefull tutorials and documentation (which stop me from learning it further)..

    I mean there is a few stuff out there and here but whenever you wanna tr soething a lil bit more in-deep, it can take you hours to find answers to your questions on forums.:(

    I expreienced the same with XSI and Houdini.
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
    Blond wrote: »
    Argh, in my opinion, I think you took the worst software to learn by yourself (without payed tutorial at least)..

    Just likeHoudini, Modo suffers form the lac of proper free reoussrcefull tutorials and documentation (which stop me from learning it further)..

    I mean there is a few stuff out there and here but whenever you wanna tr soething a lil bit more in-deep, it can take you hours to find answers to your questions on forums.:(

    I expreienced the same with XSI and Houdini.

    I fear that you are very close to truth... :(

    If I had the money, I would build my 2D portfolio and enroll to Gnomon with 3 year program and emphasis in modeling and texturing. Their software of choice are Maya, Zbrush, and Mari.

    Someone told me that modeling in Maya is pretty straight foward, and that was back in 2012. So I guess things got better with Maya since then...riiiiight?

    PS. Trust me, there's not enough PAID learning resources for Modo.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Blond wrote: »
    Just likeHoudini, Modo suffers form the lac of proper free reoussrcefull tutorials and documentation (which stop me from learning it further)..

    Define proper?

    http://www.modopedia.com/
    http://help.thefoundry.co.uk/modo/901/
    https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/tv/section/1/
    https://youtu.be/5skBZ3E5vwQ?t=9s

    I agree it could be better presented but there really is enough there to get in pretty deep, and due to Modo's tight integration with variety of features... learning one thing pretty much carries over to the next. In other words, the logic is fairly consistent.

    The paid stuff is pretty good too... and its not that hard to get a free trial period of something like Digital Tutors. In fact I think if you get the trial for modo 901, you get a free offer from DT, but could be wrong.
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
    Well, I finally realized that designing and modeling a robot or two can be one of the toughest challenge in modeling, at least for me.

    But I won't give up, at least for now.
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    ambelamba wrote: »
    I fear that you are very close to truth... :(

    If I had the money, I would build my 2D portfolio and enroll to Gnomon with 3 year program and emphasis in modeling and texturing. Their software of choice are Maya, Zbrush, and Mari.

    Someone told me that modeling in Maya is pretty straight foward, and that was back in 2012. So I guess things got better with Maya since then...riiiiight?

    PS. Trust me, there's not enough PAID learning resources for Modo.
    Modeling in Maya is an absolute train wreck.
    It's capable, but extremely sloppy and inefficient.
    If you do aim to use Maya, get ZBrush as well and just try to do as much as you possibly can in that, reserving Maya for more of the non-modeling tasks.
    Also keep in mind that Maya is expensive as ever-loving hell.

    I don't know if you have ZBrush, but that was actually the tool that got me into 3D art. Working in it is absolutely amazing.
  • DavidCruz
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    DavidCruz interpolator
    What others have said but especially what he said ^, with the new lowpoly tool and a few videos around youtube should be a much better start.(seeing doing this sounds right up your ally.)

    It is what it is now, whatever you paid for modo try to resell it somewhere to someone else and pick up zbrush with the sale money or take it as a loss.

    A lot is being said that Maya is the direction to go, at least a few people and threads have brought this up. Also since your already sort of "in there, like swimwear" you might pick up work at one of the movies for your 3D work.

    ^If that is the case 3D kitbashes, will work for you best if 3D Movie quality designs is what your after, slap a few pieces together and call it a day, and at the side lines learn as you go to model your own pieces.

    Possibilities are endless?! good luck.
  • Mant1k0re
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    Mant1k0re polycounter lvl 8
    Really guys, Zbrush?? He's saying he's trying to do some hard surface stuff, and you're telling him to pick Zbrush...? Let me quote Per here. It's the definite answer to this.

    perna wrote: »
    I feel silly about pointing out the disadvantages of the zbrush hard-surface workflow, because those points are so obvious, but I'll mention a few:
    • Your mesh is a polygon soup. This means that all the tools and approaches built around topology go right out the window. You'll be going back in time, before nendo/mirai, more than a decade back. In a polygon app you just select an edge and chamfer, or move it. In zbrush... holy mother of Hodor, I'll just trail off with dots here like Joe did...
    • You have to rely on either knowing exactly what you want in every way before you even start, or using obscure layer-based workflows to allow for changes. When your AD asks you to "move that bit to the left, please" with polygons, it's a 2-second job; in zbrush you'll suffer an emotional breakdown from the stress.
    • With poly modeling you get the lowpoly for free. Just collapse and remove some edges. In zbrush you'll have to do this from scratch. Using retopo tools for hard-surface is typically a bad idea, so essentially you have to make a polygon model anyway. Since you're making a polygon model in the first place, what did you gain by using zbrush? There's barely any difference between a lowpoly and a hipoly blockout. So, you just completely invalidated any advantage you thought there might be to using a sculpting app.
    • You might logic out that there's a lot of real-world physical hard-surface jobs that are done manually, like in zbrush. I've heard that argument; if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us. First off, your throughput time is just a fraction of theirs, and almost all those jobs are actually done on computers these days.
    • Accuracy. Polygon modeling allows you to move a corner a specific amount of units with ease. In zbrush.. well there's not even any concept of "corner", it's just a polygon soup, remember? There's no structure, just a ton of quads.
    • Tools. Over the years, countless tools have been made for polygon modeling by all sorts of different parties. Tools are ported across apps. There's such an enormous market for it. Zbrush can't catch up with that.
    • At 3Point we pay a lot of attention to edge definition. A model can be taken from looking noobish to looking pro/realistic just by redefining edges. This is a quick job with polygon modeling. In Zbrush you don't have any control. What are you going to do, manually use the smooth-brush on a separate layer? I'm sure there will eventually be tools to operate on edges (detected by angle and such), but it will still just be playing catch-up with polygon modeling.
    • Look again at the cool hard-surface zbrush models out there. Notice something? They're made to accommodate zbrush. The shapes are all shapes that are easy to do in Zbrush. Now, in a professional environment you don't have that luxury. You have to model what's in the concept. You can't skip a part just because it's near impossible to make it in Zbrush. It's not enough to make a simple base and then only fill in detail on the surface-level like with so many of the good-looking zbrush models out there.
    • Pipeline: Your mesh is now locked to zbrush. A polygon cage model can be exported to and subdivided in any 3d software. The data is very easy to manage and process. Anyone can step in and edit it, no matter which app they use.
    • OK, that's enough of this silliness.


    With all due respect it doesn't take years of experience to figure that in this case the most sensible advice to give is to pick ANY polygonal modeling package and just stick with it. Really doesn't matter which one, and you can always switch down the road when you reach a certain level and you develop more advanced workflows.
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    Mant1k0re wrote: »
    Really guys, Zbrush?? He's saying he's trying to do some hard surface stuff, and you're telling him to pick Zbrush...? Let me quote Per here. It's the definite answer to this.





    With all due respect it doesn't take years of experience to figure that in this case the most sensible advice to give is to pick ANY polygonal modeling package and just stick with it. Really doesn't matter which one, and you can always switch down the road when you reach a certain level and you develop more advanced workflows.
    ZBrush may not be the best hard surface modeler, but I still think it's better than Maya.

    In this case though, since he's focused on hard surface, and especially since he already has Modo, I definitely recommend sticking with Modo.
  • pmiller001
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    pmiller001 greentooth
    Modo is a fantastic tool. I think you'll hae a great time.
    I started using it months ago and its great. That being said, I took a different troute to learning it than most. I use it for modeling at my job, and everything i learned i did so thru trial and error. As far as tutorials go, I understand the Foundry forums have a lot of great people willing to help. That may be the best way to go. j

    ALSO, I dont think it matters the tool which you use. As long as you get the job done on time, it looks good, and its usable.
    Find the one you're most comfortable with and stick to it.
    to be honest, the skill transfers over to each program. IF you get good with one program, you know what questions to ask when you switch over to the next.
    I hope this made sense, cheers!!!
  • skyline5gtr
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    skyline5gtr polycounter lvl 9
    Zbrush for hard surface is pretty good. Yous, you need to retopo but who cares when it saves you a lot of time in many other areas. But Modo is great too.

    Zbrush is great for something, but others are better done in max maya or modo
  • Treece
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    Treece polycounter lvl 3
    Have you looked at the user guides. Recommend starting there. Many people seem to overlook these and search for those fully blown projects done by the experts. If it's modelling you are interested in, then concentrate on the modelling aspect, but in small chunks.

    https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/support/user-guides/#modo

    And as many have said, do small projects. Learn the fundamentals and take them forward into slightly bigger projects. Make sure you learn from your failings.

    You also appear to need a good motivation talk on CG. so recommend Andrew Kramers:

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KBZj0nHCDw[/ame]

    Most of all enjoy your Modo journey!!! It is a journey and not just a trip. ie: it doesn't end!!
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks guys. And I keep forgetting that it's better to have some reference for practicing modeling.
  • flipside8404
    We're on the same boat as far as learning MODO by yourself. I have only opened MODO once!!! I'd like to see your progress with it, maybe we can help each other out. It's more fun to learn with others and to share the frustration along with it!
  • kanga
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    kanga quad damage
    Maybe someone has suggested this already, I havent read the entire thread. If you really want to use Modo and need instruction then digital tutors has the stuff for you. http://www.digitaltutors.com/software/modo-tutorials I think membership is pretty affordable and their instruction is very thorough.
  • MV79
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    MV79 polycounter lvl 3
    But many Digital Tutors Trainings are not that good, in particular the modeling one's, better learn from Peter Stammbach.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/stammpe2/videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    MV79 wrote: »
    But many Digital Tutors Trainings are not that good, in particular the modeling one's, better learn from Peter Stammbach.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/stammpe2/videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid
    Yeah, I would not recommend Digital Tutors. They have a lot of videos on a lot of software, but the instructors are not skilled artists, and they generally do not go very far in depth.
    It's generally just video demonstrations of interface documentation you could find online, and the occasional basic workflow riddled with errors.
  • kanga
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    kanga quad damage
    I followed one a couple of years ago on motionbuilder and it was pretty good. I was interested in how the software worked not on how flash their animating abilities were. None the less maybe the quality has changed. Generally the tutes are noted for being a bit plodding, sometimes that is what you need though. However I guess not all their tutorials will be the same.
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