Hard surface is hard

polycounter lvl 3
Offline / Send Message
Abaky polycounter lvl 3
Hi,

this is my first post ever :)

I am new to 3d modeling and am currently just testing what Blender can do, or what can I do with it. My focus is on hard surface stuff. What I am looking for here is critique, what am I doing wrong, how to fix it, basically I want to improve my modeling and down the line, texturing skills.

So this is going to be (hopefully) a documented progress of weapon building for in-game use.

Starting of is a high poly muzzle break I build today.

The inspiration was this image

raptor.jpg

I am almost sure the holes at the top go thru the top all the way down but I cant model the cylinder intersecting another cylinder without nasty shading issues. :poly127:

So pleas give some advice how to improve topology, where did I do weird solutions. Especially with regards to cutting cylinder and maintaining smooth result.

Replies

  • Tectonic
    Offline / Send Message
    Tectonic polycounter lvl 4
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    thanks Tectonic, will definitely read up on as much info as I can :)

    So I made some quick bakes in xNormal and here is the result so far, the poly count in probably a little high for just a muzzle break and some edges have really obvious normal map errors, also AO map has edge issues. Would really appreciate any constructive criticism.

    [SKETCHFAB]7fb0ac63241146ed80dc1b732bcab706[/SKETCHFAB]
  • AxtelSturnclaw
    Offline / Send Message
    AxtelSturnclaw polycounter lvl 2
    I noticed some bake errors where the cylinder meets the hexagonal part of the piece. This post by EarthQuake should help you understand what is going on, and what to do to fix it.

    I definitely like how you managed to get the circular appearance out of a square indent in the end area.

    For first-person, a detail piece, or a weapon customization menu, I think the polycount is pretty much spot-on, especially considering the complexity of the real-world piece.

    For third-person, you could probably bake the holes in the top and bottom into the texture, saving yourself a few hundred tris or so.

    In first-person, the holes will be seen at such an oblique angle and such a distance that it's your choice whether to include them or not.
  • Tectonic
    Offline / Send Message
    Tectonic polycounter lvl 4
    I think considering how small and far away this will be seen, you might consider making the edges more smoothly beveled.
    Normal_edge_thickness.jpg

    Also you have a lot of unnecessary geometry on the inside of the muzzle break, its really not going to get seen very much so try and optimize it some more.
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    @AxtelSturnclaw : Thank you, I will make sure to include control loops when I do next bake, I wonder if I can remove those loops when the bake is done or will that screw up surface normal? Will try and see :poly121: Honestly I was surprised how well the normal map makes the tip of the muzzle look.

    @Tectonic : Yeah I still have no real feel for how strong should I push control loops together, especially when it comes to machined metal. That being said, I personally don't like edges to smooth, they somehow look to puffy, if that makes any sense. But you are right, this will never be seen up close, so next bake will solve this. I do agree that inside is way to polygonal, the only problem is that I have real problem when it comes to solving complex topology on a curved surface :shifty: :)

    Here is a peace that caught my attention when I was doing my first interesting-muzzle-brake-picture-dive, so lets solve some more messy topology :)

    Here is the reference picture
    ar_fsc30-1.jpg
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    So today was a slow day, I have made tree different meshes for the body of the latest muzzle break, but am not happy with the result, so here are a couple of images showing how I solve the topology for high poly right now and you will notice that after I apply subdivision surface modifier, the top slightly bulges out. Any idea how to fix that and is it even worth fixing it?

    mesh.png

    mesh2.png

    mesh3.png
  • Tectonic
    Offline / Send Message
    Tectonic polycounter lvl 4
    definitely go over to technical talk for sub-d edge loop flow. they have some really great knowledge to share. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56014&page=233
  • noosence
    Offline / Send Message
    noosence polycounter lvl 2
    407UXru.png

    The topology isn't following the shape smoothly, that's why you are getting the bulge there.
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    @Tectonic : thank you for the link, very useful info, a lot to take in and a lot of reading :)

    @noosence : you were right, after moving that vertex, the pinching vent away. I still need more practice when it comes to cutting detail into round surface.

    So last two days I have been messing with cages and baking and the results are not very good. I have some problems with smoothing, but for today I went and managed to finalize the second muzzle break, that has some more interesting shapes. Only high poly was made, and I would appreciate any critique on high poly.

    The reference picture I already posted.

    1.png
    2.png
    3.png
    4.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    so after two weeks of reading and watching Arrimus 3D tutorials, I am back with some updates. After reading some posts on the technical talk, I have noticed that a lot of problems can be avoided by starting with a higher geometry base. I watched a guy make really good looking grenade for for use in game engine that had more dense low poly model then most of my high poly models have :shifty: so right now I am trying to get more comfortable with higher density geo. Also for texturing, Substance Painter is something that I am currently playing with and getting some nice results. Was even able to make ID mask using vertex color :)

    So the idea right now is to get this sniper rifle done and import into Unity.

    High res front done so far:

    001.png

    002.png
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
    Offline / Send Message
    Brian "Panda" Choi polycounter lvl 5
    I would soften the hard edges a lot more with what you have at the moment. It looks solid! Just want to make sure it plays nice with the normal bake and at various distances.
  • Tectonic
    Offline / Send Message
    Tectonic polycounter lvl 4
    awesome. yeah, there's some great tutorials out there if you know where to look. I'm excited to see your progress. :)
  • Konras
    Offline / Send Message
    Konras polycounter lvl 9
    Looking really good. Better and more complicated from post to post. Keep it up! :)
    To avoid triangles I remember 1 tip from video I watched long long time ago for sub-d modeling its sometimes better to leave n-gons, especially 5-gons should be better than rectangle and triangle.

    But yeah, thread recommended by Tectonic is golden source of all kind of info :)
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    @Panda : I agree, edge sharpness is something that I still struggle with. When I start modeling, I am very careful that the edges are softer, but then 15 min in I notice that I am making edges that look like they came fresh from a CNC mill. :poly141: To combat that, I started using Toolbag, so the edges can be checked quickly and often.

    @Tectonic : You wouldn't happen to have any links for UV unwrapping, would you? That's the next thing on the list that I have to tackle.

    @Konras : Glad you like it :) Yes, I believe that the idea was to leave n-gons on a flat surface and once the turbosmooth is applied, it converts n-gons to quads. I do use this from time to time, but Blender can sometimes give some smoothing errors even on a flat surface when n-gons are in use, so for me it is a last resort.

    So because this rifle concept has its own muzzle break I had to model another one :) this time, softer edges, but the look is more simplistic and I am not so sure about the sides. Critique!!!

    screenshot001.png
    screenshot002.png
    screenshot003.png
    screenshot004.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    Some modifications were made, so the shape of the sides is softer and I added some detail.

    screenshot010.png
    screenshot008.png
    screenshot006.png
    screenshot007.png

    So in the last picture there are some problems on the edges and I don't know if I should go back and add more topology (maybe higher subdivision level) or is this something that will not be visible in the final bake?

    screenshot009.png


    That's it for now, next is the rework on the picatinny rail and fixing front guard on the rifle. Also no more 4K renders, to big.
  • Abaky
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    Update on the edge softening process. Maybe I went a little too far.

    screenshot000.png
    screenshot001.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    I have some concerns with rails, they look really ugly if you don't look at them up close. Right now they are build up to proper scale, but I remember a tutorial in which the guy scaled picatinny rail up slightly to lessen the sharp highlights effect. For now I will leave them the way they are and see if postprocess effects in Unity can soften the edges.

    screenshot000.png
    screenshot001.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    So after doing some work on the rifle's upper receiver, the scale seemed really off, so I did what I should have done in the beginning and made a block out of the rifle. And the block out shows that the front is a little to wide which means that part will have to be redone :shifty: So yeah, block outs, the under appreciated part of modeling :) I would love to get some feedback on the topology of my block out model.

    untitled.png
    untitled1.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    Some more edge tightening practice in preparation for scope/scope mount modeling.

    screenshot001.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    So in the past couple of days, I have made 3 or 4 blockouts of this sci fi scope. The concept art only shows side which has silhouetted that does not hold when done in 3d, so here I have made some artistic decisions. The mount for the scope is still in development. I am not to sure about the right side of the scopes body. Any critique is welcome.

    [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8AP1Ook0Wk[/ame]
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    Ok, I am going to stop on the scope at this point and start to work on the low poly version, to get some feel of the baking process in Substance Painter. Once the scope is completely finished, I will resume work on the rifle. I do have some concerns on the front side of the scope, it feels over detailed compared to the rest of the scope. :shifty:

    screenshot003.png
    screenshot005.png
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    So year and a half, it took 18 months to finish binge watching Naruto, a time well spent. Unfortunately all files are lost, so I am starting from zero again. I am going to take smaller bites this time, get a project to completion, goal is still the same, modeling hard surface stuff for real time rendering. I found some really nice weapons in MGS 5 so I will tackle that first. And I am going to start with a simple knife.

    Heres the high poly



  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    some fast bakes done in Substance Painter, rendered in Marmoset, knife has 1508 tris




  • Abaky
  • Abaky
    Offline / Send Message
    Abaky polycounter lvl 3
    I am gonna call high poly done on this set. Low poly and bakes next.

Sign In or Register to comment.