An application designed around texturing vs an application designed around editing photos with some drawing and drawing tools. Plus Photoshop barely changes with each update and Substance gets some pretty major changes with each update.
I've barely started using Substance and I already love it much more than Photoshop.
It's already a better dedicated texturing app than Photoshop is (because Photoshop isn't one), but I think the point is... will it start to take PSs place in pipelines, and/or become the "standard"?
Personally, I should hope so. If not Substance, something like it. Speeds shit up tenfold (the idea of manually creating each map from scratch needs to die), and that's the least of it. Only time will tell if it actually removes the need for PS though.
I wouldn't say it's going to any time soon. It could! But I doubt everyone's going to jump at letting PS go just yet.
Maybe. Substance Designer is rapidly becoming the go-to for making things like tiling environment textures and leaving Photoshop in the dust.
That said, Substance Designer and Substance Painter still have a long way to go before they can compete with Photoshop (and arguably 3D Coat) and a skilled texture painter for things like stylized texture creation. There are a lot of artistic nuances that are very difficult to achieve with procedural texturing methods, and that's where Photoshop and similar programs excel.
Once there's a good middle ground that gives the ability to work with a brush engine as powerful and intuitive as Photoshop's and procedural tools as good as Substance's, you're going to rapidly see Photoshop fading from the industry. This may be very soon in some Substance Painter update, or it may be a couple of years from now. Photoshop is certainly on a downward spiral in a lot of ways, though.
I like the idea of how you change it once in substance and it fixes everything in the pipeline unlike photoshop and you have to change each individual texture
That's prob not gonna happen. It MIGHT happen to some degree in next gen pipelines but even for character texturing, I can't see substance replacing photoshop for texturing skin. And one place it will NEVER replace photoshop is handpainted texture studios IMO.
I too haven't touched Photoshop for texturing since getting Designer/Painter.
It's still an important part of my workflow but tediously propagating changes across multiple maps is just not intuitive enough in photoshop.
I think Photoshop will still exist for handpainted or more stylized projects. Substance Designer is just another tool like any other. I think that SD is great and will help a lot of teams, it's like thinking that Maya/Max will die because of Zbrush. That's not happening (or at least in my opinion).
I think it will become more prolific in studios making realistic or pbr style games where multiple maps are required for each and every texture. A lot of smaller studios and indie devs may want to try thier own approach to art direction which may simply be unlit textures or diffuse with a bit of specular etc and although SD can do this stuff it doesnt really show off its power.
Slosh: Really? handpainted texturing is the area I least use Photoshop in. I've almost entirely substituted Photoshop for 3dCoat when doing handpainted textures, and with other software such as Krita having things like psd support and tiled/mirrored painting, don't count on Photoshop remaining king forever.
For photo-based stuff I still use Photoshop a lot, though.
That's prob not gonna happen. It MIGHT happen to some degree in next gen pipelines but even for character texturing, I can't see substance replacing photoshop for texturing skin. And one place it will NEVER replace photoshop is handpainted texture studios IMO.
I'm surprised to hear you say that so strongly. I mean, I think it's only a matter of time before Substance is handling hand painted, stylized, skin, and whatever else with ease. It's so flexible and powerful.
And even if it doesn't ... the projection painting system is so much more powerful than painting on flat maps in Photoshop, it's not even a contest IMO.
Photoshop's days in the pipeline are numbered IMO unless they really do something to turn it around. 3D painting in Photoshop is terribad.
While my models aren't on the level of others here, I was able to use Substance Designer to create all of the maps for the Overwatch art test. It's that mix between stylized and realistic and designer/painter handled it without a problem.
Oh and Chris Khuner (Crystal Monster) used Designer/Painter for his most recent project (it's in the recap!).
I haven't used substance designer/painter but it seems like the software is very correlated to the soft-of-recent PBR shader bandwagon. It has a long ways to go before it becomes as much of a full game texture-editor as photoshop is a general purpose defacto image and texture editing software.
Photoshop is very very general purpose while substance is a very catering niche tool.
There isn't much a place for either of them to replace each other. Some software or plugin might become more popular in some pipe-line until some new tech comes around that some other software carefully caters to that people will think will kill off other previous-pipeline software. I don't think we'll be seeing very many people makeing gameart without photoshop or gimp or whatever installed as well for a long time.
I have only started using this week and the results I have been able to achieve is actually incredible, I'm honestly thinking I that I am going to convert fully
I'm surprised to hear you say that so strongly. I mean, I think it's only a matter of time before Substance is handling hand painted, stylized, skin, and whatever else with ease. It's so flexible and powerful.
And even if it doesn't ... the projection painting system is so much more powerful than painting on flat maps in Photoshop, it's not even a contest IMO.
Photoshop's days in the pipeline are numbered IMO unless they really do something to turn it around. 3D painting in Photoshop is terribad.
I just know what I have seen from devs over the course of my career. I'm not saying Substance can't do what Photoshop can for handpainted stuff. I'm saying people are accustomed to what they are used to and most proficient at and asking a lot of them to switch is not going to be easy. I still think the VAST majority of artists are using Photoshop over Substance and I don't see that changing any time soon...esp outside of next gen PBR pipelines. Hell, there are a lot of nextgen studios not using Substance. Again, I'm not railing on Substance, I think it's an amazing tool...both Designer and Painter.
I think if Substance can continue to prove itself the way it has, you'll see a sea change coming in the new few years. Yeah, old stalwarts will hold their ground and continue to Photoshop everything but I honestly feel that's a dying skill set at this point.
New artists entering the industry will be starting in PBR since that's what the free game engines are using. They won't be Photoshop junkies.
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I've barely started using Substance and I already love it much more than Photoshop.
Personally, I should hope so. If not Substance, something like it. Speeds shit up tenfold (the idea of manually creating each map from scratch needs to die), and that's the least of it. Only time will tell if it actually removes the need for PS though.
I wouldn't say it's going to any time soon. It could! But I doubt everyone's going to jump at letting PS go just yet.
That said, Substance Designer and Substance Painter still have a long way to go before they can compete with Photoshop (and arguably 3D Coat) and a skilled texture painter for things like stylized texture creation. There are a lot of artistic nuances that are very difficult to achieve with procedural texturing methods, and that's where Photoshop and similar programs excel.
Once there's a good middle ground that gives the ability to work with a brush engine as powerful and intuitive as Photoshop's and procedural tools as good as Substance's, you're going to rapidly see Photoshop fading from the industry. This may be very soon in some Substance Painter update, or it may be a couple of years from now. Photoshop is certainly on a downward spiral in a lot of ways, though.
It's still an important part of my workflow but tediously propagating changes across multiple maps is just not intuitive enough in photoshop.
The programs are meant to compliment each other, not replace each other. Each one is powerful for a certain usage scenario.
Is it better to know how to use a drill vs. how to use a hammer?
For photo-based stuff I still use Photoshop a lot, though.
I'm surprised to hear you say that so strongly. I mean, I think it's only a matter of time before Substance is handling hand painted, stylized, skin, and whatever else with ease. It's so flexible and powerful.
And even if it doesn't ... the projection painting system is so much more powerful than painting on flat maps in Photoshop, it's not even a contest IMO.
Photoshop's days in the pipeline are numbered IMO unless they really do something to turn it around. 3D painting in Photoshop is terribad.
Oh and Chris Khuner (Crystal Monster) used Designer/Painter for his most recent project (it's in the recap!).
Photoshop is very very general purpose while substance is a very catering niche tool.
There isn't much a place for either of them to replace each other. Some software or plugin might become more popular in some pipe-line until some new tech comes around that some other software carefully caters to that people will think will kill off other previous-pipeline software. I don't think we'll be seeing very many people makeing gameart without photoshop or gimp or whatever installed as well for a long time.
I just know what I have seen from devs over the course of my career. I'm not saying Substance can't do what Photoshop can for handpainted stuff. I'm saying people are accustomed to what they are used to and most proficient at and asking a lot of them to switch is not going to be easy. I still think the VAST majority of artists are using Photoshop over Substance and I don't see that changing any time soon...esp outside of next gen PBR pipelines. Hell, there are a lot of nextgen studios not using Substance. Again, I'm not railing on Substance, I think it's an amazing tool...both Designer and Painter.
New artists entering the industry will be starting in PBR since that's what the free game engines are using. They won't be Photoshop junkies.
It's just a matter of time...
It's time to jump on board the software train and not get left behind!