The Monthly CHARACTER Challenge | November 2014 | the Martial Artist

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  • Nika
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    Nika polycounter lvl 4
    @PyrZern: Nice, good job.
    @J_Kirkwood: I think her skull is too wide, the collar bone should have more defined shape. And I'm not sure but her lower legs seem too small. I like how you did her nose and lips.

    Xz2EMzn.jpg
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    hey everyone, I've never done a 3d challenge before, but I figured I'd give it my best. This is probably the 2nd most detailed 3d character I've ever done, so I'm a bit of a newbie. I'm shooting for a low poly/mobile game model and I'm currently at 1918 polygons.

    I made some of my own triangles instead of letting it auto-triangulate, because I think it takes on better volume at certain angles if I can control some of the triangles.

    My only question at the moment: Is it okay to have one side polygons extruded from an edge? I figure I could probably cut down on polygons a bit if the hair was flat polygons.

    Beyond that, I'd be extremely grateful for any advice!

    bAFiDDU.jpg
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi interpolator
    It is okay. It becomes a question of processing costs since you have to throw double-sided rendering to make that poly face show on both sides.
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    @Andromeda No problem glad I could help :D. I hope more people get in on this!

    My progress so far. Once I add the scarf and basic hair i'll be ready for texture painting :D

    (Yes i'm quite aware of the large ear just not returning to it yet)

    I decided I would try a trial of Mudbox to decide if I want to pay for a subcription for that, or just keep trying to use mainly photoshop for painting textures.

    Also I'm very inexperienced with alpha hair, any tips for that you guys would recommend? I have some ideas but more idea would be better.

    1rxnx3.jpg
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    Hmmm, I'm not really good at making hair planes either :(
    From what I see, using both small and large planes for hair strands seem to get nice result. Instead of same plane rotating around. Maybe like 4-5 variations or something ?
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    @PyrZern heh seems I'll need to experiment a bit :P

    I forgot to say mad props on yours BTW! come a long way since I last saw her!

    EDIT: Also I like your solution for the scarf, didn't make sense to me looking at the concept :P
  • Zukan
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    Zukan polycounter lvl 4
    @iadagraca the head looks a little bulbasy to me. I would look into playing with it a bit and seeing how it looks when it's a little smaller at the top.

    Here is where I'm at. I'm struggling with how to handle the shin guards. I'm not very well versed with hard surface modeling in zbrush. I could use some tips. :D

    Also, for the spikes, did people make those in zbrush or take a cube in maya/max and make a quick spike to import into zbrush? It seems like a simple shape but I'm not sure how to make it in zbrush.

    tWwN6Tq.jpg
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    I just make hardsurface stuff in Maya, and import em into ZB.
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    @Zukan That was actually intentional since there's going to be hair there, one tutorial I saw suggested this so i'm trying it.
  • Zukan
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    Zukan polycounter lvl 4
    @PyrZern I suppose I'll have to do that and practice hard surface stuff on a smaller scale another time. I want to get this done by next week.

    @iadagraca That's fine too. Are you texturing the top to be the hair?
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    @Zukan yeah part of it, plus some extra stuff i think.


    I came across this site which has ripped models from various games :D

    http://www.models-resource.com/

    So I downloaded a few for reference on how they did their long hair and boy is some of it AMAZING :D


    HIGHLY recommend downloading the Final Fantasy and .hack//Versus characters! I think i have an idea of what I might do now.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    @iadagraca Thanks for the resource link man. AWesome stuff.

    @Zukan This is kinda how I made the scarf. I blocked it in ZB, retop it, then extrude those out in Maya. Then back to ZB to detail it.
    cCSVRHK.jpg
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    Here's a quick update with textures. That's rendered in C4D, so it has GI. Since I'm making this model for mobile, I plan on baking the GI into the texture.

    GZKOTIl.jpg
  • Trawler
    Hey all! long time no post, sorry about that - been rather busy!

    Still working on this though! Got the high poly nearly finished I think! just gonna go over the face again to make her more appealing

    Here she is :
    hUYZj5B.jpg

    EGnnc1N.jpg

    josh.0 : Looking awesome - love the low poly look!

    PyrZern : Lovely bust - everything looks great.

    Zukan: looking good so far! she seems a little top heavy from the pictures - that could be the angle throwing me off though! Keep going!

    Thanks all :)
  • Nika
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    Nika polycounter lvl 4
    Here is my finished high poly.
    SEvdqOq.jpg

    @Zukan: Looks good but her shoulders seem a little to wide, I'm not sure.

    @Josh.0: It loos great, really like the form

    @Trawler: really good job. Only the stripes on her trousers end in a strange place.
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    dyk305.jpg

    Well this is what i made so far, hopefully it would work well enough. Will need to subdivide for smoothness.

    Still might change it, i realize that fran from FFXII has a similar design for her pony tail and i'm curious how they did hers which was BEAUTIFUL.
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    18jfp1.jpg

    Ok with most of the modeling done i should be able to work on reducing poly count, sitting at 11k right now. Thinking i should be able to bring that down to 8k easy considering all the fluff here.

    EDIT: i think blender is lying to me, the main model is 4k, hair is 700, eyes are 200, where's 11k coming from?


    EDIT2: OOOOOOH mirror...
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    Some of the models I saw use two maps, one for skin face and hair, and another for the outfit.

    Is this common for a single character?

    I think I want to do this instead of one map...
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    That's up to you, I suppose.
    Usually I think it's for modular texture sheet for customization. (changing gears' color without changing character's skin. or vice versa.)

    I don't know what loads faster in term of performance or taking up less space.
    2 sheet of 1024x1024, or 1 sheet of 2048x2048.



    Oh, the voting thread for December will start tomorrow, the 22nd.
  • billymcguffin
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    billymcguffin polycounter lvl 5
    @Pyr, 2 1k textures is half the pixels of 1 2k texture. There are 2 * 1024 * 1024 = 2097152 pixels in 2 1k textures, but 2048 * 2048 = 4194304 pixels in 1 2k.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    Yeah, I know it takes 4 1024 to make a 2048 sheet. But I dunno what is more efficient.
    I only say 2 sheets instead of 4 there because usually I don't see many characters like that.
  • billymcguffin
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    billymcguffin polycounter lvl 5
    Oh, I see. I don't know if the extra texture sample is better or worse than less vram usage.
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    It's crazy, i wish i had seen these before but a lot of games had multiple maps for a single whole model. Fran from FFXII has 4, one for body, one for face and ears, and two for hair.

    1024,1024,512x1024 then 512 respectively.

    And the simplicity of the hair texture is INSANE, it's no wonder they were able to push out so much detail. If you look at the UV's they look like a mess but the result is beautiful!
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    Hmm, Wonder if multiple smaller maps are faster to load than 1 bigger map...
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    Well, it's still smaller than a 2048 map in this case.

    The texture resolution here is comparable to some PS3 game models i'm checking out.

    Finding some interesting methods for eyes too btw. DOA characters have a interesting set up.

    I'm also realizing i haven't considered modeling the inside mouth yet, and making textures for that...
  • ProteinPannkaka
    @Trawler, Great progress!

    @Nika, The legs seem a bit too cylindical, I think it would do a lot if you spent some more time on them, because other than that it looks great.
    PyrZern wrote: »
    Hmm, Wonder if multiple smaller maps are faster to load than 1 bigger map...

    A single 2048x2048 texture would be much faster than 4 1024x1024, probably faster than 2 (less memory but more processing required). Of course there are a lot of variables, say if you are able to cull the hair and not load the texture at all in some cases (LOD for example) it could still be worth it.
    There could be any number of engine/pipeline specific reasons for it as well.


    I've been busy with another project but I got started on the retopo yesterday, I'll probably go for 16k tris instead so I can get done on time. Looking forward to experimenting with hair planes.

    Here's the mostly finished high poly:
    c46ou7i.png
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    @iadagraca, Where are you checking out these game models you're mentioning?
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    @josh.0

    People post them on deviant art and there's a website I linked here earlier.

    They are usually in XPS format or.mesh.acsii, others are in .obj (you'll need to find an importer for the app you use)

    You'll find models for any range of games people are interested in.

    Library on this site isn't large but it's a start, the .hack and final Fantasy models are great.

    http://www.models-resource.com

    Others you'll find in deviant art.

    @proteinpannkaka

    It might be the perspective but your character seems top heavy, are the legs long enough?
  • kay-vonlanthen
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    kay-vonlanthen triangle
    PyrZern wrote: »
    Oh, the voting thread for December will start tomorrow, the 22nd.

    where?
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    Sry, I mistook the date <_<"
    Here it is.
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2193091
  • Zukan
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    Zukan polycounter lvl 4
    Man I feel shitty. I've still got a lot to do.

    This is what it's looking like right now. I messed with the biceps and shrunk the size of the shirt a bit. I made the shin guards and foot guard.

    Stuff I still need to do:
    -Hair
    -Detail cloak shoulder piece
    -Detail the collar to match the concept more
    -Retopo
    -UV
    -Bake
    -Texture
    -Figure out how to rig it

    My plan for the flowing part of the cloak is to have a dense plane extruded from the back of the shoulder piece. I need hair still also, and I guess I'll try and do that with planes as well. I don't have much experience with hair at all though so I'm open to suggestions.

    xGu3trk.jpg

    Trawler your piece is looking really awesome!
  • twoquiznos
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    twoquiznos polycounter lvl 3
    hey guys two Q here
    i started this one kinda late but ill show u what i have so far

    everyone has some really good stuff and a lot of u have anatomy down

    @Zukan ur model is coming along well the chest has improved from your last few post and its looking right the only suggestion i can make is the front hips and stomach area dont flow as well as the rest it feels akward, looking forward to ur next post

    @josh.o also another amazing model ur skills r quick and ur eye for low poly counts is top notch

    @iadagraca looks excellent cant wait for it to be smooth i think ur line placement is spot on

  • Hamakua
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    Hamakua polycounter lvl 3
    yegTr5J.jpg

    gVAu5aQ.jpg

    I'm really really late to the party. I only started on the 23rd (and didn't work on her on the 24th.) I was busy for the earlier part of the month and would have skipped but I really liked the concept art so wanted to see how far I could get. (and you only get better by doing!).

    Anyway - This is my first character attempt but have been learning anatomy for a few months now. (did the entire hand yesterday with 0 reference - not even my own!)

    I sculpted a 7 head "normal" woman then deformed the sculpt after the fact to try and get the proportions closer to the spirit of the concept, and focused mostly on the face/eyes - which was hard because the lower part was up for interpretation. Getting the eyes looking right was the hardest part.

    I think I'm supposed to compliment and Critique a few pieces.

    @Trawler, My favorite clothing work so far is Trawler. Trawler nailed the leather feel of the cuirass and other details really ground the materials.

    @ProteinPannkaka, Second favorite (close to Trawler) clothing as he is the only one to pick up on the asymmetrical knee design implied in the concept (or preserved experimentation by the artist) - Criticism Toss a hair piece on (even if its just a rough blocking out) - they help a ton, especially when trying to get a face to look right. Also love the gloves, best of the bunch so far.
  • Trawler
    Hey all! long time no post :)

    been working on retopping this in my free time and lunch breaks at work!

    Here is where I am at so far!

    Ozrk2dI.jpg

    WJiatjF.jpg

    She is on roughly 15k tri's, I havent finished the hair yet - I still need to redo the fringe and add more to the pony tail. My topology isn't the best so if you guys spot anything let me know :)

    @Hamakua. Thankyou for the kind words! :) they mean a lot. Your work is looking good! I think her waist might be a little on the thin side from the front view. And I think her shin's might be to short.

    @Zukan. Looking good man! keep on going! her back cape might be to short. In the concept its super long since its twisting around.

    @ProteinPannkaka. Awesome stuff! the gloves are nice, and her feet look awesome too! :) good job!

    Thanks all!
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    @Trawler Good job on the retopology, man. Looks great. I have seen some diff way of doing face topology though, with loops around her lower nose and her mouth as well. But yours should be fine as well.


    Side note; take your time, guys !! You can start December's challenge whenever you want.
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    Not sure how much further I'm gonna take this one. I'm at 2158 triangles, which is a bit over my 2k limit. And, I ended up having to use two color materials due to poor planning.

    Does anyone plan on texturing their model?

    3lFI5zt.jpg
  • Trawler
    @josh.0 looking really nice, I love the style, are you planning on taking this further with the hand painted look? I wouldn't worry about the tri count, I think you've done well with the amount you have used! I'll be texturing mine once I get her unwrapped, which she nearly is! Will take me a little longer due to work! :(
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    @Trawler Yeah, I'll probably do another evening or two on it. So, I'll try to work more on the textures and fix the hair a bit.

    For anyone to answer:

    I've never really done much texture work. Is there a way to alter my UV map and texture map at the same time. Like if I wanted to Move, Scale, or Rotate a section of my texture map along with the UVs. Is there any way to do that? I've been doing everything in Cinema 4D so far, but I've been considering switching to another program if something like that is possible.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    I don't think there's something like that... Not to my knowledge anyway. I have seen ways to change UV layout later once the texture is completely done. (you rebake the finished lowpoly with new UVmapped lowpoly). But to manipulate the UV as you go, I don't think so.

    BTW, great job. Feels like Mabinogi Online but with better graphic ^^ The shape/form of her forearm seems little weird, though.
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    @PyrZern Ya, I agree, When I extruded the forearm for the glove, something got lost with the form and I was never able to get it looking right. I'll try playing around it a little more. Thanks! :)

    As for the texture thing, I just figured out a way. It's basically limited to Move, Scale, and Rotate, though. I just tried Move, and it worked great, but Scale and Rotate isn't as good... but it will still save a lot of time in the early stages if you needed to shift things around a bit.

    But, I did it with Cinema 4d and the included Bodypaint. All I did was select the UV Mesh, moved it, then there is a "remap" function. I know not many people use Bodypaint now a days, but it's been serving me well for the meantime. I'd really like to try Mari some day, tho.

    Here's the forum link that describes it a little bit better:
    http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/topic/85960-can-i-edit-uv-map-and-color-texture-at-the-same-time/
  • Trawler
    @josh.0 I found this a while ago that might be of some use to you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow4ub0IwFUU but it is in Maya - but the skills might be transferable?
  • josh.0
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    josh.0 polycounter lvl 4
    @Trawler Thanks, I'll keep that mind for the future. The only reason I do Cinema 4D is because I come from a motion graphics for video background, and Cinema 4D is used in quite a few video production companies here in Chicago. But, someday I'd like to switch to Maya or 3ds max.
  • Nika
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    Nika polycounter lvl 4
    Here is my final model with textures.
    uG8JpDL.png
    and wireframe
    B1OjuzH.png
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    I know i'm super late but heres the model :D

    I spent a lot of time learning mudbox after using just photoshop failed for me. So this is a combination of both!

    [SKETCHFAB]249523d834814cb1bf379b827da60bfc[/SKETCHFAB]

    Sadly there's some skinning issues i've been having a hard time fixing but i really need to move on. It's not perfect when posed but enjoy anyway :P

    EDIT: sorry gimme a sec reuploading!
  • iadagraca
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    iadagraca polycounter lvl 3
    Ok i'm done fixing skinning issues -_-


    All my next stuff will be made in maya anyway.
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