Arrrr, the piracy poll!
mod
I'm curious to know the main reasons why people pirate software(or games), I feel like more information will help developers create software that users actually want to buy/support.
This poll is not meant to shame anyone, or to argue the ethics/morals of piracy, but simply be a source of information. We have a lot of developers on this site and I think it will be useful to see what the general motives for piracy are.
If you would like to remain anonymous, please vote in the poll but do not post. Nobody will have access specific information (eg, who voted for what) other than Polycount admins, and we promise not to do anything nefarious with it.
Due to the imperfect nature of polls, there will surely be some choices I've missed, but try to pick the one that matches your situation as well as possible.
This poll is not meant to shame anyone, or to argue the ethics/morals of piracy, but simply be a source of information. We have a lot of developers on this site and I think it will be useful to see what the general motives for piracy are.
If you would like to remain anonymous, please vote in the poll but do not post. Nobody will have access specific information (eg, who voted for what) other than Polycount admins, and we promise not to do anything nefarious with it.
Due to the imperfect nature of polls, there will surely be some choices I've missed, but try to pick the one that matches your situation as well as possible.
Replies
For games: Don't pirate games anymore because I love Steam and Humblebundle, and there's a lot of affordable amazing games out these days. It helps that I make money now too, when I was a student it was harder to choose between games and food. That being said, I'm much more strict on the games I buy because I shouldn't be having more fun with a $15 game than a $60 game which has happened quite often lately.
Altho; there are few softwares that one has to buy.
The way I see it, if your using their software to learn and improve with the hopes of getting a job with a company then its far less malicious than some other practices. At the end of the day, if you do end up getting a job with a company based on your experience with that software (and of course being good at your job) then that company will have to buy licences anyway so software companies get their money anyway. Larger companies (ones that monopolize the industry like Autodesk) can afford to allow their programs to be used as a learning tool.
Other programs (such as Marmoset toolbag and the Quixel suite on the other hand) provide their software at affordable prices, and considering its primarily the art community (not so much companies) that help keep them afloat I think its only right to purchase such software.
It would be interesting to see whether people legitimately purchase software for Steam Workshop items and what sort of software alternatives (if any) that people use for freelance where their income might not be constant throughout the year.
Some articles say subscriptions are calculably cheaper than purchasing an upgrade... But I think that's under the assumption that the consumer is purchasing every upgrade as soon as it comes out... I bought CS6 for around 380 bucks when it came out. As someone who does not purchase every new version of Photoshop, if I decided to opt in to the Creative Cloud subscription, after about a year I start losing money (comparatively). At this point I would have already lost several hundred dollars.
Other articles say piracy is a great form of advertisement, as it lets people use the software to its full extents before having to decide to support the developers.
Personally, I think after 500 bucks or so my considerations to purchase the software take a nosedive. Sorry, Autodesk & Unity. Also guaranteed free updates to future versions (like ZBrush, Quixel) are always a hook for me. If I could buy Maya for $3K and be guaranteed free upgrades, I'd be much more likely to buy it even at its steep price point.
PS: If anyone from Pixologic is here I except free gifts via Polycount PM
It all comes down to how much value I get, how much it costs versus how many hours I will use it. For example, if you compare Autodesks subscription of 3Ds max versus Unreal Engine 4 (vastly different programs, but I use both), 3Ds max is 195 euro a month and UE4 is 19 euro a month + 5% of your sales.
So for roughly a single month worth of 3Ds max I could get 10 months worth of UE4, just that greatly decreases my will to subscribe to 3Ds max. If you then compare the time I use each software for 1 month and compare that to the price the price/value point becomes even worse for 3Ds max compared to UE4. I think I average around 20-40 hours a month on 3Ds max, while I average around 60-100 hours a month on UE4. So 3Ds max gets an hourly value of 9,75-4,875 euro an hour, UE 4 gets 0,31-0,19 euro an hour.
If you take a cheap one time fee program like Toolbag 2, it becomes harder. Because I really have no clue when you guys will make a new version or if you ever will make a new version. Will you make Toolbag 3 in 1 year? 5 years? That changes the value of a program for me. So if we the simple math again and use my 2 hours as a benchmark, if you release a new toolbag after 1 year it's hourly worth is 5,375 dollars an hour. But if you release it in 5 years, the hourly rate would be 1,075 dollars. But then you get issues like, I can still use Toolbag 2 even if you release a new version, it might be worth more then other programs because it has a high value to me personally, maybe I really like the devs. Stuff like that can also impact the price/value point. What if I use the program more a month, maybe less another month.
But in the end if the price/hour is too high I simply can't afford it and if there really isn't another solution for it I will end up pirating it. The same stuff pretty much applies to games too.
I'm still using a pirated Photoshop Cs6, but I'll be subscribing to CC once it becomes a little more stable, and now that I have a job. I bought a month of it, but it would start bugging out after awhile, delaying the scrubby zoom, and panning, and all that, for about half a second. It really slowed me down, so I went right back.
However, I always support smaller companies. Even if I can't particularly afford it.
Marmoset, Quixel, etc. I love their business practices and their software, and they're cheap enough that I can justify it. Like someone said above, if it's more expensive than my computer, I just can't bring myself to buy it.
Marmoset and Quixel are so innovative, to not support them would be madness.
I also pirate to try stuff out. Even games. If I like it, though, I'll buy it. I don't really play games, though, so if I download it, it's more to look at the art, and even then, I play it for maybe an hour or two. Unless it's fun, then I'll buy it. I always buy Bethesda's games, too, because I tend to love them. I will buy indie games too. Steam makes it very easy. Dear Esther, Amnesia: The Dark Descent/A Machine for Pigs, Gone Home, etc. I loved all those games, and felt good supporting the developers.
To summarize. I like to support small innovative companies, and products/businesses that I like. If the price point is above a few hundred dollars, or if I just want to try it out, I'm significantly less likely to buy it, at least at this point in my life.
Tekoppar also made a good point when it comes to what makes software far more appealing to purchase. Pixologic providing free updates after the purchase of Zbrush is what made be purchase that over Photoshop when I was back in school. I would love to eventually purchase Maya or Max one day, as outside of a certain tv show about games, and thrones and what have you, those have become the only thing I've pirated in a very long time.
This becomes even more glaring when Epic throws a monkeywrench in everyone's pricing models by offering UE4 for essentially $20. Now, it does have the % of sales tacked on, but for the way most of the artists around here use UE4, the subscription doesn't need to be recurring.
TL;DR: Autodesk and Adobe have such a constrictive monopoly in the industry, and such an antiquated pricing method and release scheme in addition to the price point, pirating it is the way to go. On the other hand software like the Quixel Suite, TB2, UE4, Zbrush, and others are priced pretty fairly and have pretty decent update plans. Essentially, I can't justify the expenditure on Adobe and Autodesk, but require the software, while other software is in the sweet spot for what I can afford.
Or at the very least sack all the management and get new guys in
That said, I am totally for the student packages some developers are offering. Autodesk offer a student key for 3DSMax if you can provide legitimate proof of an educational institute, and indeed Octane Render is following in pursuit.
However for developers like Adobe who have a large portion of the industry in their hands, you don't see them actively trying to prevent piracy for, say, Photoshop. Think about it, studios may be paying upwards of $2-6,000 dollars for a commercial licence which already brings in their financial gain. A bunch of hobbyists and freelancers pirating software is like a feather on their shoulder, touch
I love how many software providers have special packages depending on your needs. dDo for example, is only $25 for me since I don't need nDo, which is perfectly affordable and an incredible deal for what you get.
Autodesk software on the other hand, can be quite unfair since it costs a lot, and if you want yearly updates then you better be an industry professional with a nice salary. I do like the fact that it's offered for free to students as that is what I'm currently using, but I don't think I'll be too happy once I graduate if I can't find a job.
I'm not a fan of subscription models since some of them are expensive (Unity, for example) but when it is done well it can be an amazing choice (UE4, for example.)
For software, it comes down to being unemployed and needing skills to become employed again. If I can afford it, I'll buy it, but right now I have a family on a single income with high medical bills as an extenuating factor. I've also done what I consider morally questionable but technically permissible things such as registering at a community college, getting student software, then cancelling my registration. I'll also buy anything I've used as soon as I am able and would never use anything for commercial purposes without purchasing. Occasionally I might turn to it if there's no trial available and I have literally no other way to evaluate something, but I've only come across that situation once.
Being older and having income, there's simply no point. Even if I don't have the money to buy all the games I want (which is most of the time), it's not hard to just wait until I can afford it. Not interested in stealing, not interested in taking money away from studios, not interested in having my ISP call me and say "Dafuq you been doing mate?" The urge to pirate hasn't even presented itself. Soooo much easier, more respectful, and safer to just wait a while & pick something up on sale.
I also just like seeing things in my Steam library proper, or having the cases on my shelves.
Same goes with programs. I'll pirate it and if I think its something I'm going to actually use for more than a few days, then yeah I'll go ahead and buy it if its not stupidly over-priced.
Games: Most I did back in the day was the NoDVD/CD exe hacks. This was back in 2003~2004. I still bought the games, just hated that DVD/CD spin up sound all the time. But Steam came out and took care of that nonsense.
I do have NES/SNES roms.
For Games, Steam makes getting games easier than pirating them, which makes it attractive for a lot of people. With the Steam sales, I don't see why one would ever pirate any game ever again.
When I bought Call of Duty: World at War, back when it came out, I didn't know that it was censored in the country I was living in, so I downloaded a pirated non-censored version of it. Did that a couple of times in the past actually, for games that had weird country restrictions, or if the purchased copy was only in the country's language and not in english, I basically bought them but still downloaded them, just so I can play them the way the developers intended it / in the language I preferred to play them.
The main reason is avoiding DRM. I have a fair few games sat on the shelf still in their wrappers, simply because I don't want that shit on my machine. I don't need seven or eight different "services" running in the background constantly on the off chance I want to play a game. Heck, I have a Bioshock 2 special edition box with the game still wrapped, because who wants to install Games for Windows Live?
Starforce almost cost me my gaming machine a few years back when it rootkitted hard, permanently disabled my optical drives, and then when using the supposed 'starforce removal tool', I found I could no longer boot into windows without a constant stream of error messages. I have never installed an Ubisoft game from disk since, and only have three games in UPlay, which retrospectively I'd rather have never installed since it's a waste of my time and frequently doesn't work anyway.
A few of the other games I've pirated over the years have been because I wasn't sure I'd enjoy them. Dropping the equivalent of 80-100 USD on a game that you couldn't bring yourself to play for more than an hour, but find you also can't return is painful. Some of them I did later buy, some of them I didn't. Since pirating Borderlands 2, I now have the retail pre-order version, the season pass, all five headhunter packs and a loot chest at home (and I bought the first game). Mass Effect has all three games still sat in wrappers as I pirated the first game and later bought it, then avoided the DRM for the other two. Other games, like Dragon Age, I found to be unplayable and deleted in pretty short order to conserve valuable disk space.
all games CD/DVD sold for 1.5 $,, oh game download also was out of question with overpriced 56kb dial up internet
that gave me bad habit to treat cds like junk, ( got tons of them back then)
even today with full of 15 - 60 $ games libraries, sometimes I misplace one disk to another disk cover. thats why digital download like psn and steam is a gift from heaven.
I'm in the same case for games. However for software too costly I try to find some alternatives, or even try to build my own tool.
Games: It's been a few years since I pirated a game. When I did pirate them, they would be single player games I'd just like to play through once and be done with it. I started to realize all the work that goes into making them and felt like a piece of shit watching the download bar go up, so I stopped lol.
It's because of the price since in our country it's much expensive and because of Steam, I can afford games when it's on sale ...
same goes to software, so I use free open source alternatives like Blender then got stuck on it LOL ... I pirate some like Photoshop but when CC was out I'll just stick to what I have today knowing that you don't really need to get updated with the updates and new features ...
I pirate when price vs learning is at stake, if I'll just learn the software not selling the result after that why buy the software?
i had the horrid experience with the new watch dogs. i bought it my pc has the specs to run the game however for some unknown reason i cannot play it. my pc goes to blue screen of death and steam does not offer refunds so i have now lost money and regret my choice to get it for computer. had i waited for a crack to test it with first like i normally do i wouldn't of wasted money and just got it so i could play it at my friends place instead of not at all.
I will continue to practice trying before buying because I don't want to support crappy developers, or simply play a game I don't enjoy. In the past I've pirated a game, spent hundreds of hours in it, bought the boxed special edition, then bought it three more times on steam for friends because I loved the game and the developers that much. In this day and age when there's so much mediocrity I can't risk wasting both the money I've worked for and my free time on a game that is utterly BS.
(Also I think the Adobe subscription system is absolutely awesome, and I hope lots of other software devs adopt a similar pay as you go system)
I gladly give my cash to people that make legitimately good programs with the clear intent of making people's lives easier (Quixel, Wrapit, Handplane, Marmoset, etc) and the pricing isn't ridiculous.
I feel a solution that makes everybody happy (Devs get money, customers get what they want) would be to put up new and legacy versions of software up for sale, with payment pricing either the "I want the latest and greatest so here's my money forever" plan or pay monthly until you own a license for the version of the program you want.
I understand that developers are people too, and they need their bills paid like everybody else, but their marketing departments aren't doing a good job of convincing me. I think offering single-version software (Current and legacy) with a fixed price on a monthly plan would go a long way to being a good compromise. The price point becomes a much more attractive prospect, and developers can keep making money on the products they're currently working on and the old versions that still have demand.
As for games I buy them for PS4 if it's something I want to play alone or for the single player, then I sell it after I beat it so I can play games for cheap, or I play on PC games I play with friends so I need to buy them, also pirating games is a lot of work and won't always been in your library ect.
as for movies though.. i pirate because it's easier and looking back at all the movies i used to own on VHS i don't feel too guilty but i'll go to the cinema every now and again too. Music is another case of it being easier, i'll support artists when they come to town and do shows and buy t-shirts etc. but i feel like i should get to hear the music before i decide whether or not i like them and want to support them. Software I pirate because it costs so much, there's no way i could pay for Max, Zbrush, photoshop etc licenses each year.
As for the software, I totally agree with Der Hollander. I'd really like it if software companies started rent-to-own options for their latest subscription-only services. (Or followed the UE4 model of paying for whatever is available now without requiring a constant subscription unless you want to update.) Although these monthly payment plans are much more affordable in the short term, in the long term they're going to eat up way more money than you would've spent in one go with the old plans. It really bothers me that I can't own many of today's software or games and that I'm basically using it at the whims of the developers.
In any case, I've learned to live with the quirks of open source software for the applications I don't own or subscribe to.
The only time I've been tempted to pirate software is when switching between mac/pc versions of software. Having to pay for a product I already own just because the operating system is different is annoying. (Although I understand that developing for each platform requires additional work it just seems moronic for a company to not support both platforms and to give customers access to software installations on both without charging extra.)
Software, sometimes.
I buy licenses for everything I can afford if I find it is useful to me. But sometimes to even evaluate it properly I need to crack it.
I still haven't committed to a major 3d package but LT is looking like it is going to get my money.
I've been consistently buying every single one of the softwares I use for the past few years. The sad part of it is really softwares like 3ds max-maya wich are so pricey, even has a professional or a full time freelancer.
I really try to encourage smaller company that still try to keep their price (reasonably) low, great programs such as 3d coat, marmoset toolbbag, zbrush, topogun etc. Plus I love those cause you actually get updates too, really make it worth my money
Now I either can afford software or I know a good open source alternative that gets the job done. I just feel better all around knowing that I'm doing thing legitimately and so far it's helped me find lots of software I never would have found otherwise that I prefer over the paid stuff (such as firealpaca for sketching and krita for painting.)
Also, by using Blender I found that I could customize it to piece together my favorite parts of Maya and Max to make a workflow that I thoroughly enjoy.
-I HAVE NEVER WORKED AT A STUDIO WHERE THE SOFTWARE IS BOUGHT-
at best, they have a 3dstudio max version 2 somewhere on a shelf bought decades ago.
That said, there's a snowballs chance in hell that I'm going to pirate software during the production of a game. Who wants a $50,000 fine? Not me. That's who.
I mean, people seems to say don't do piracy, but i do wonder if in such case, AD isn't really on a loss here...
Short answer to the below rant is cost per month or to buy is to high for personal use.
Software is a big issue. I subscribe to Adobe CC and i find the pricing immensely worth it. With the range of software you get. I have no idea of what Autodesk is thinking with their licence models. They are just screaming "not for consumer use!" and by doing so they might miss a really large market. Maya LT is just one big joke to me. I mean it's not like you see Photoshop CC but you can only export to .jpg in lowest quality and you cant use the transform tool. How stupid would i be to buy that version.
I'm not ashamed to admit that I used to pirate software. I'm sure most people started off by pirating. There's just no way you can afford all the software you need if you're not a freelancer, and even then. Some do offer student versions now which is good.
I have always supported the smaller companies that offer great products though. Like Marmoset and Quixel.
That being said i only buy software thats either cheap/ from a smaller development team / or doesnt make me pay for each update.
Games i buy on steam or if they`re a console exclusive that people recommended. I buy a lot of games on launchday because i want to play them right away so steam sales only make up my mind to buy something when i wasnt sure if i`d like it before that.
I think if no one pirated software maybe GIMP and blender would be better software today because they would have much larger communities so there would be more interest in contributing to them.
I don't think artists choose to do 3d at because they can pirate software, more like they pirate software because it's the means to the end. But if blender and gimp were better they might have never had to
It might also result in a buyout from Autodesk :P.
Job requirements:
Experience in using Autodesk GIMP. (Shudder).
That aside, student versions of everything helps, if there isn't student version available or reasonably priced alternates/subscriptions, well shit happens. *Heads up* Anyone with a valid student Email can get all of autodesk products for free as student copies, IE you can't make money from them.
I remember one particular time i forked out £50 for a file conversion kit due to a specific client format request. Never used it again. Really wound me up as i knew there was free versions available from torrent and it would have done the exact same thing...
Games? I own too many steam games that i haven't even played yet & humble bundle keeps me a happy man. £3 natural selection 2, with other games and i've spent about 300 hours for £3. I'll admit i used to pirate games when i was younger but that seems a common trend for teenagers.
-Can't justify games piracy other than to demo/test it on my machine before hand.
-Tested watch dogs as it had no demo, hated it after 15mins and removed it from my system. Would have been £40 down to find that out, then my balls in a vice since i can't take it back. If i enjoyed it, then it would have been bought faster than i could press delete on the demo copy.
Lastly, Dust is a good game to raise on restrictive DRM, i remember pre-ordering it to play when stuck traveling from A-B due to its claim of no DRM. Well they lied and that's the only game i have ever got a refund from steam for and that took nearly 2 weeks...
Turns out it doesn't launch if you're not connected to the Internet.
Always pay for software <£100 (quixel, marmoset, toppgun,World Machine, etc..) But I simply cannot afford to buy the industry standard giants and eat in the same month. Even if they bring out 'student versions',they're usually still out of an affordable price range and come with a list of limitations as long as my arm.
Once I can eat and pay rent/utility bills AND have money left over I'll happily fork out, but till then the price for the tools is just too dam high.
Does that make me a horrible person?