Physically based Bus (Unreal Engine 4)

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polycounter lvl 4
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JordanN polycounter lvl 4
Heeyyyyy. If you guys remember me, I'm the guy who was planning that big cartoony island project from March. I've decided to put that on hold right now. Not because of trouble, but because I want it to be my best portfolio piece. I've decided I should continue to improve my 3D modeling and 2D drawing skills so that way, I can truly impress everyone at Polycount with what I believe, is a very creative idea of mine.

So now I'm trying to get back into modeling with my first project. Modeling a section of my city, starting with these buses.
nwLbIjg.pnguogAsJL.jpg

Before I started modeling, I wanted to map what areas will appear physically based.
U7nAU4g.png

Here's the progress so far. Modeling in 3DS Max.
OSvBAPv.pngHvZjNlI.png

It should be noted I've made changes to the bus. Because of the blueprints I'm working with, the actual bus is a mash up of the two reference images. I actually like this decision as it makes it look more original.

I'm definitely going to complete modeling today and hope to get the textures done in the same day.

When I'm done with the bus, I'm going to rebuild this part of my city and populate it in Unreal Engine 4 (downtown brampton, brampton terminal)!

yULuO7w.jpg

Replies

  • perna
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    perna interpolator
    JordanN wrote: »
    Before I started modeling, I wanted to map what areas will appear physically based.
    Remember that you're dealing with surface materials, not structural materials (you're an artist, not an engineer). Therefore stuff like painted metal will not actually appear to be metal.
    JordanN wrote: »
    It should be noted I've made changes to the bus. Because of the blueprints I'm working with, the actual bus is a mash up of the two reference images. I actually like this decision as it makes it look more original.

    Every time I see less experienced artists say something like that, my natural reaction is to call bullshit. The primary reason why they're not following the concept isn't "unbridled passionate creativity", but simply lack of discipline and/or skill. It's very important for potential employers to see that you can model a concept down to the T.
    JordanN wrote: »
    I'm definitely going to complete modeling today and hope to get the textures done in the same day.

    Well, that's not going to happen. To make a good hipoly mesh of this bus, I reckon you'll spend no less than one, perhaps several weeks.
    JordanN wrote: »
    When I'm done with the bus, I'm going to rebuild this part of my city and populate it in Unreal Engine 4 (downtown brampton, brampton terminal)!

    The over-ambitious project is the ultimate noob killer.
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 5
    Don't get in the habit of feeling like you MUST work off of ortho references. It's like saying you can't draw without tracing. You're not going to be given ortho reference to work off of every single time and many times you just simply are not going to be able to find it. You should get comfortable working from just reference pieces that are not orthographic.

    Grab the refBoard by Equanim here if you haven't already. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134131

    I usually split my 3ds Max viewport in 2 vertical windows. I have my reference on refBoard covering the 1st viewport and I model in the 2nd viewport right beside my reference. That way I am able to quickly glance over at my reference.


    When you get started on actual scenes. I find it much easier to take the scene on from the big picture instead of one asset at a time. This has helped me tremendously as I used to get bogged down for days trying to get the little details just right on a single asset when in reality it was probably just a waste of time.

    Block out the entire scene, props, and everything without going into details or texturing. Your job here is to get the scale and proportions correct. Then you can take it further and add details to everything in the scene one step at a time keeping the big picture in mind.

    Hope this helps! Hang in there! And good luck with the job search! :)
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    Sorry about the delay. I was attending other stuff yesterday and now the hot weather hits making modeling more miserable.

    I do feel proud of making this.
    Xr6ux5L.png

    perna wrote:
    Well, that's not going to happen. To make a good hipoly mesh of this bus, I reckon you'll spend no less than one, perhaps several weeks.
    I'm not even sure if I'm going to make it hi-poly (in the millions) right now. I'm just trying to get something done and hopefully it opens me up to do more serious work.
    perna wrote:
    Every time I see less experienced artists say something like that, my natural reaction is to call bullshit. The primary reason why they're not following the concept isn't "unbridled passionate creativity", but simply lack of discipline and/or skill. It's very important for potential employers to see that you can model a concept down to the T.
    It was two months ago, there was a thread discussing portfolios and one of the hiring guys mentioned he favored originality over substance.

    It's still a bus. I'm not going to go crazy with it and give it something like hands for wheels. There's also nothing stopping me from making more buses that are exact copies of the real thing.
  • Mik2121
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    Mik2121 polycounter lvl 6
    Gotta agree with what Perna said. Many of the things he said hit way too close because that's how I tended to be back when I was a student, always trying to be too ambitious or trying to modify some design because, honestly, a part of the original looked like it would be too hard.

    Just go with the original design and pull through the whole thing and spend time on it. You will be glad you did that after a while seeing how you ended up with 1 really good asset rather than 6 or 7 projects half-finished that didn't really look that nice.
  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    Jonas Ronnegard Polycount Sponsor
    If you are going to schedule yourself, like saying "I'm gonna finish the high poly today" it's best to schedule more realistically, this is your personal stuff and nothing will happen if you don't hit your goals, but it can damage your will to work, I had big problems estimating time during my early days and I'm not perfect now either, I usually schedule what I think x2, I think in your schedule regarding the high poly it's x12.
  • Aga22
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    Aga22 polycounter lvl 4
    yeah like the other guys said, setting impossible goals for yourself will only get you frustrated.

    better set yourself something like: i will work on it for 5 hours, no facebook, no porn, no skype.
  • Spoon
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    Spoon Polycount Sponsor
    Aga22 wrote: »
    i will work on it for 5 hours, no facebook, no porn, no skype.

    Impossible to do for 5 hours!
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 4
    One of the problems I had when starting out is that I would plan to do something massive that would take an environment artist months. Then I would try to do it in a matter of hours or days and then fail badly and then lose motivation to do anything 3d because it was going so badly. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you will stop doing this it happened to me in a repeating cycle until I learned to pace myself.

    There is nothing worse than setting short deadlines and then finding yourself days, weeks, months behind where you planned and still not any where near finished.
  • Nam.Nguyen
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    Nam.Nguyen polycounter lvl 3
    I've seen your other thread and I don't think that you reach the level to do what you're planing. like the others said, you plan to do something massive, you'll end up with frustrated.

    And what is Physically based ? do you clearly understanding it, or they said that it'll give you a beautiful, physically accurate look if you just throw stuff in to UE4?

    Don't think about rebuild a part of your city, not even a Bus, Let's say : I'm gonna make a wheel !. If it's look like shit, just do another, and another . . .
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    Nam.Nguyen wrote: »
    I've seen your other thread and I don't think that you reach the level to do what you're planing. like the others said, you plan to do something massive, you'll end up with frustrated.

    And what is Physically based ? do you clearly understanding it, or they said that it'll give you a beautiful, physically accurate look if you just throw stuff in to UE4?

    Don't think about rebuild a part of your city, not even a Bus, Let's say : I'm gonna make a wheel !. If it's look like shit, just do another, and another . . .
    The thing about the island was I was going to have draw up concepts for everything. You saw the two ship drawing right? They were my ideas so it requires a lot more abstract thinking because none of it was real yet.

    I already have the blueprints for the Bus and I can just step outside and already see what needs to be modeled. It's less of a challenge to me.

    I've been studying physically based since the first Epic Samaritan demo. The physically based rendering system has to do with how light interacts with real world materials using actual scientific barometers.

    For example, using my own Bus example. The way light bounces off glass is completely different to how it hits the tires. Whereas the windows represent a "mirror like" representation of our world (because glass is very smooth, and polished, light bounces back in one direction), the tires have a much more diffuse looking sense of specularity (tires have a rough uneven surface,full of micro bumps and crannies, light is bound to get lost and scattered around the surface).
  • LRoy
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    LRoy polycounter lvl 6
    JordanN wrote: »
    I'm not even sure if I'm going to make it hi-poly (in the millions) right now. I'm just trying to get something done and hopefully it opens me up to do more serious work.

    Not to be a dick, but you already over reached and gave up on your last project. If you keep doing it you're going to realize months have gone by and you have nothing to show for it.

    The best way to show you can do something is to just do it. You really don't have to worry about how light reflects off rubber if all you have is a cylinder and some cubes.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 6
    JordanN wrote: »
    I already have the blueprints for the Bus and I can just step outside and already see what needs to be modeled. It's less of a challenge to me.

    I think that's the problem. You aren't challenging yourself. Challenging yourself and using your own* creativity will only make you better (if you don't give up) and that's what gets people jobs..the ones that succeed are the ones that set themselves apart from everybody else and steps out for their comfort zone to better themselves rather than just make something to fill their portfolio.
  • Noren
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    Noren polycounter lvl 12
    Nam.Nguyen wrote: »
    Let's say : I'm gonna make a wheel !

    I think that's a good idea. Try to do a wheel to the best of your abilities.
    Proper highpoly first.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    LRoy wrote: »
    Not to be a dick, but you already over reached and gave up on your last project. If you keep doing it you're going to realize months have gone by and you have nothing to show for it.

    The best way to show you can do something is to just do it. You really don't have to worry about how light reflects off rubber if all you have is a cylinder and some cubes.
    When did I say I gave up? I never said that, I said I put it on hold.
    If I want, I could cancel this project and make the island a priority again. But I don't want to right now.
    aajohnny wrote: »
    I think that's the problem. You aren't challenging yourself. Challenging yourself and using your our creativity will only make you better (if you don't give up) and that's what gets people jobs..the ones that succeed are the ones that set themselves apart from everybody else and steps out for their comfort zone to better themselves rather than just make something to fill their portfolio.
    I guess you could say I'm a person that's hard to understand. The way I challenge myself is done in a different way.
    Noren wrote: »
    I think that's a good idea. Try to do a wheel to the best of your abilities.
    Proper highpoly first.
    I like this idea. I'll make the wheel my first hipoly project.
  • stevston89
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    stevston89 polycounter lvl 5
    You really need to listen to the advice given. Clearly you don't understand the amount of time it takes to create assets/ environments to the quality desired. No employer cares about the scope of a project if everything looks bad. Focus in on something and go SLOWLY. Do not rush through it. Achieve quality first. Speed come naturally as you work more.

    Also make sure it's something that is do able and that is very compelling to you. You have the best chance of actually come out with a good project that way. You don't want to get 3/4 of the way into a project lose focus and then never finish. Trust me those project you say you will get back to you most likely won't. I start a lot of projects. Few ever get touched again. Most likely because the interest wasn't really that strong to begin with.
  • WarrenM
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    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    When did I say I gave up? I never said that, I said I put it on hold.
    "Put on hold" is another way of saying "never working on it again". If you aren't interested in working on it now, I don't see what would change in the future.
    I guess you could say I'm a person that's hard to understand. The way I challenge myself is done in a different way.
    You may believe you have unique snowflake status but odds are good that you don't. :)
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    @stevston89

    I agree, I'm not going to make it a daily thing anymore and just base it on "how many hours I put into it" instead.

    I don't want to give up on the projects though. But that's because some of these aren't just 1 second ideas. They're based on something bigger I want to do (create a game).
    WarrenM wrote:
    "Put on hold" is another way of saying "never working on it again". If you aren't interested in working on it now, I don't see what would change in the future.
    I still work with them every day. When I'm bored and I need to sketch something, the first thing that comes to mind is "hey, my island project!". Or when I open 3DS Max/UE4, the first exercises I do are props related to that project.

    It's not even a lack of interest. Not even close. If I could retire forever, the first thing I would do is "those projects I have? I want to finish them". Not a day goes by where I don't think about it. Even now, I regret not having completed it, especially reading the outcome from this thread.
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 4
    WarrenM wrote: »
    "Put on hold" is another way of saying "never working on it again".

    R.I.P all the projects I put on hold, you will be forgotten quickly :D
  • pior
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    pior sublime tool
    Before going ahead, a good idea would be to find (and possibly, post here) game environments of the exact same style and specifications as your intended goal. From there, you will be able to time and budget all steps appropriately.

    From what you have shown so far, your project could be anywhere between 3DS specs and PS4, which require vastly different approaches. You have to pick something, and then stick to it.
  • perna
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    perna interpolator
    WarrenM wrote: »
    You may believe you have unique snowflake status but odds are good that you don't. :)

    This.

    Jordan, since you're unemployed and fixing to make a career out of this, (in other words it's pretty damn important for your life), I'll give it to you straight: You need to get your head out of the clouds. You remind me of one of those poor souls who show up to the American Idol auditions thinking they have some special innate talent, but have forgotten to actually confirm this theory with the outside world, and consequently make fools of themselves.

    You really, awfully, catastrophically suck. Which is fine, since we've all been there at some point. The difference is, most of us worked our asses off to un-suck, while you're wasting your time "researching PBR", "making concepts for my huge ambitious project" and so on.

    You should just focus on learning the basic of modeling, and completely forget the idea that someone is going to hire you because of some "special inner quality". They're going to hire you because you can make solid 3D assets within deadline.
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 7
    I've been there.. I even got it on record.. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81810

    I loved to start projects back in the day. I think I have around 35 open projects that will NEVER be done.

    For me it was part of the process of becoming the artist I'm today. Looking back, and the advice I gave a friends just weeks ago that wants to get in to a 3D art school, take baby steps and let you self be proud when your done. He made two props and they will beat your stuff everyday. Why? Because they are DONE.

    One wheel sounds good. Or if you actually want to focus on PBR, do 10 material spheres. No more.. If you're doing a environment, do a diorama with two components, minimalistic shit.

    When you find your idea and plan your project, ask your self what the smallest amount of work you need to do to make it fly. If you realize you need a full setup of vegetation, do a desert scene. The satisfaction and boost of finishing things are insane.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    perna wrote: »

    You should just focus on learning the basic of modeling, and completely forget the idea that someone is going to hire you because of some "special inner quality". They're going to hire you because you can make solid 3D assets within deadline.
    There's a big misunderstanding or a miscommunication error going on. I never said I wanted to be hired based on "special inner quality" or anything like that. It has nothing to do with me, personally.

    I'm only motivating myself, that's it. If I never told you it was a "project" there would be no difference between what you're saying right now and what I was doing.

    I also don't agree I'm wasting my time. I want to be a 3D environment artist, not anything else. If there's something that can help me get ahead or better understand what I'm doing, I want to read into it.

    That said, this thread has taught me a lot and I'm going to reevaluate the bus. Modeling the high poly wheel is where I want to make that start.
  • Stockwell
    JordanN wrote: »
    That said, this thread has taught me a lot

    Has it really though? You have Perna here, one of polycounts best telling it to you straight, and I really really hope you are listening. He can seem rough on the edges sometimes (I've read just about everything i can find that he has taken the time to write), but he truly only wants, not for you to improve lick lickity-split, but for you to understand how to improve your personal abilities. He and racer are some of my biggest teachers (don't take my money guys :() because they help guide you, they don't tell you how to do it.
    JordanN wrote: »
    and I'm going to reevaluate the bus. Modeling the high poly wheel is where I want to make that start.

    This is about the smartest thing you've said in this thread.

    And I want to attempt to explain two other things:

    PBR,

    Forget about it dude. The reason Perna is saying the same is because PBR is a technique used waaaayy further down the pipeline of an asset. Like, your highpoly model doesn't give two fucks about PBR. This a material thing, which you need textures for, which you need uv's for, which you need a good low poly model for. You NEED these skills if this is what you want to do, and we would much rather see you post sweet models and show us your improving. I don't care how you learn or improve or challenge yourself, I don't want to see PBR materials on a shitty model.

    Stop learning about PBR and learn more about how to create proper 3d models.

    For example: You said you were proud of this?

    Xr6ux5L.png

    Be more proud when you've accomplished something like this:

    VideoGameArt_Borderlands_Bus01_MaxKo.jpg

    Second, your "big idea".

    We all have big ideas Jordan, and we all love our own, and baby our own, and want to create our own and see people play and love it. But some people wait there entire career to have the pull AND THE SKILLS AND MAYBE A TEAM to make their own game. I'm not saying don't shoot for the stars, i'm just saying make sure your rocket ship isn't going to blow to smithereens before it even leaves the ground.

    I hope to see a sweet hi-poly wheel soon, BUT TAKE YOUR TIME! Throw away the first three you make and show us the fourth. Iteration will help you learn.

    Hope this has helped.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    Stockwell wrote: »
    Has it really though? You have Perna here, one of polycounts best telling it to you straight, and I really really hope you are listening. He can seem rough on the edges sometimes (I've read just about everything i can find that he has taken the time to write), but he truly only wants, not for you to improve lick lickity-split, but for you to understand how to improve your personal abilities. He and racer are some of my biggest teachers (don't take my money guys :() because they help guide you, they don't tell you how to do it.
    Believe it or not, I'm one of the least stubborn people you'll ever know. Maybe it's because of the internet, that makes it all the harder to pick up on it, but perhaps if this was a real life conversation, I guarantee you guys will be enamored by what I have to say.

    I wanted this discussion to drag on not because of any hate or conflict but because of knowledge. I am serious about 3D art but who else can I go to? Polycount is a forum of veteran artists, why wouldn't I take this opportunity to extract all the knowledge I can from them?

    Again, I want to learn. I'm always in a constant state of self correction. Any perceived disagreement are my attempts at rooting out any flaws that I may have.

    Imagine without this thread, I might have not seen that Bus picture you posted which tells me "ok, this is what the game industry wants and that's what I should strive for".
  • Stockwell
    I totally get that the internet may have something to do with communication, but i think the fault is on you. Why should any of us have of posted in this thread? To help you? Well you were right to come here for that, but don't trick us and frustrate us into dragging out a discussion like this. That honestly made me a little mad, why don't you just ask?

    OR BETTER YET! YOU should be looking for that stuff on your own dude.

    I googled, "high-poly bus", and it was the first result. Plus unless you live under a rock, you have to be able to see what games look like today. Open up and play a new game, there is your industry standard. Look at new games that haven't come out. That will be your industry standard, as the standard will never stop getting higher.

    Let me tell you a story about my school:

    There were 100 students. 90 of them came to class, and left after class. 10 of us came four hours before class, and left the next day after sleeping under desks and drinking ludicrous amounts of coffee at dennys during the three hours school was closed.

    Out of those ten students who went above and beyond with "hours of work". Only two of us got jobs, and i'll tell you why. Cause we searched out the knowledge for ourselves.

    It exists, and it's not hard to find, and i shouldn't sit here and post examples for you because it's something you can totally do on your own. This is what i meant, by being guided to better skills, not being told how to improve them.

    Jordan it's great that you're open minded, and in a constant state of self correction? but if i were you, I would quietly shut off polycount. Stop following up on these posts, and instead take our advice, go dig yourself into a 3d program and bust out some art work to make us say something other than, "dude just stop". Try making us say wow, or nice start, or keep going. Show us something we can help you with, like a COMPLETE part at least of a model (COUUGH DO THE WHEEL) so we can critique you instead of hand over knowledge to you, don't expect us to give you a foundation. Some of us payed for that.

    Because i don't want to make any more posts like this, and because I do want polycount to be a place for people to learn, here is some reference.

    I honestly don't even feel good posting these, I literally googled, "modeling a high poly wheel" and clicked on every result of the first page. Do this always, before asking here. A lot of people hate repeating information, it's why they document it and put it someplace you can find on google.

    http://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/model-a-high-poly-car-wheel-in-3ds-max-part-2--cg-1373

    http://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/model-a-high-poly-car-wheel-in-3ds-max-part-1--cg-1296

    There are two, there are so many more for different techniques.

    Perna is right, your an american idol contestant right now, and we are your judges and you are not going to hollywood buddy. Not right now at least.

    I really think your next post should show us some art. Not excuses.
  • MooseCommander
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    MooseCommander Polycount Sponsor
    I was going to say everyone was being a bit harsh, but then I read this.

    "Believe it or not, I'm one of the least stubborn people you'll ever know. Maybe it's because of the internet, that makes it all the harder to pick up on it, but perhaps if this was a real life conversation, I guarantee you guys will be enamored by what I have to say."

    And now I'll be harsh. Talking this way is the fastest way to turn people off not only from you, but your work. This type of attitude will not get you a job. You've guaranteed that I would be enamored, but right now it is the exact opposite.

    I'll echo what many great artists have already told you. I, in no way, care about what you have to say. It will not enamor me or anyone else. You know what will?

    Showing us amazing work.

    Stockwell is right - model the shit out of that tire, search on polycount for every tire you can find and see how people are beating you, and then try to hit that level of quality if not surpass it. Keep making tires until you do. Then, at that point, you can pick another part of the bus to go about.

    Just model and stop telling us there is a communication error. Eat your humble pie and get to work and you will be a better artist for it.
  • neilberard
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    neilberard polycounter lvl 10
    Don't worry about jumping ahead with everything, do some tutorials and get comfortable with the modeling first.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    Slaved away for a couple of hours and here's what I got:
























    ikZMdni36Iq23.png



    Got ya! That was my first 3D model ever literally from a year ago.


    Now here's what a year improvement can do.

    iby6wHXGjyMaQB.pngibgtMWwTEdO5cV.png

    Much better.
  • Visceral
    To be fair Jordan. Your first model is much moore...."optimized"...Anyhow good job!
  • Aga22
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    Aga22 polycounter lvl 4
    whoa i'm impressed.


    not really. your model is wrong in many places, and jacking up the segments won't make a difference.

    search for reference from other angles, or BETTER YET, go outside with a camera find a parked truck and take closeups and whatever ref you need. how rust gathers in the crevices, the numbers on the tire, what do they say, what font do they use, what's in the goddamn holes around the rim etc. there are stuff that you dont get from a picture unless you see it yourself, and only then you will be able to breath life so to speak, to a 3d model.
  • oobersli
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    oobersli polycounter lvl 11
    looks like you're building from the ortho too much. most beginners do this in that you get the shape of the tire, but forget to round it off on the sides. A tire isn't a perfect cylinder and is rounded towards the edges. You should get another angle of the tire to model with to get the tread pattern/sidewall correct.
  • huffer
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    huffer polycounter lvl 6
    Also take a look at the amount of details you can put in: here and here for example.
  • Mossbros
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    Mossbros polycounter lvl 4
    Welcome to polycount lol.
  • WarrenM
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    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    Aga22

    Really? Go outside and take pictures of tires with a camera? Come on. It sounds like you're looking for any excuse to rag on the guy now.

    "Sculpt a tire from clay first, get a feel for the shapes and the forms. Create a tire in your mind's eye and extrapolate the meaning of the tire in context with the whole body nature of the vehicle it services. COME ON, NOOB!"
  • Pedro Amorim
    LOL
  • Stockwell
    JordanN wrote: »
    Got ya! That was my first 3D model ever literally from a year ago.

    This... why even do this? I don't understand.

    picard-facepalm.jpg

    JordanN wrote: »

    iby6wHXGjyMaQB.png

    Okay there is some progress. A lot is wrong with it still though, it's by no means great but it is a lot better than what you have ever done. Some people have given you some good feedback, NOW THROW THIS ONE IN THE TRASH AND MODEL ANOTHER!!! :poly142:
    JordanN wrote: »
    I THINK THIS IS much better THAN WHAT I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED BEFORE.
    Fixed that last part for you.

    Really though, model another one and show us a render without a wireframe, we can't see what the actuall model and smoothing looks like. Doesn't look like your even using a turbo/meshsmooth. Try again with that.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN polycounter lvl 4
    Stockwell wrote: »
    This... why even do this? I don't understand.
    Some of you were doubting if I would ever finish anything again or that I wasn't listening. I threw that in as a counter to both questions.


    Stockwell wrote:
    Really though, model another one and show us a render without a wireframe, we can't see what the actuall model and smoothing looks like. Doesn't look like your even using a turbo/meshsmooth. Try again with that.
    Wait, what? How do you think I got the the geo count so high? Modeling 25,000 polygons one by one would have taken more than a day. The only things not smoothed out are the bolts and treads.
    iwDs4O3XhtIKp.png

    oobersli wrote:
    looks like you're building from the ortho too much. most beginners do this in that you get the shape of the tire, but forget to round it off on the sides. A tire isn't a perfect cylinder and is rounded towards the edges. You should get another angle of the tire to model with to get the tread pattern/sidewall correct.
    It's hard to see but I did lift up the front surface of the tire and chamfer some of the sides. True, it is still closer to a cylinder but there are micro variations. I obviously need to make it more noticeable next time though.
    huffer wrote: »
    Also take a look at the amount of details you can put in: here and here for example.
    Keep in mind this is a bus wheel. Some of the detail wouldn't be noticeable because there are few gaps (and I don't think it's worth to model something you would never see in a game anyway).

    But I see some stuff I can add to my rims/tires next time.
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 7
    Stockwell wrote: »
    This... why even do this? I don't understand.
    *snip*

    Okay there is some progress. A lot is wrong with it still though, it's by no means great but it is a lot better than what you have ever done. Some people have given you some good feedback, NOW THROW THIS ONE IN THE TRASH AND MODEL ANOTHER!!! :poly142:


    Fixed that last part for you.

    Really though, model another one and show us a render without a wireframe, we can't see what the actuall model and smoothing looks like. Doesn't look like your even using a turbo/meshsmooth. Try again with that.

    What the FUCK is wrong with you?? Do you seriously think that you have an open fucking shit lane to this guy cause Perna told him like it is? There's a difference between being harsh but honest and a fucking douche bag.

    There's been like 10 posts telling him to humble down, start with the right small thing and that the next post should eb art. He did just FUCKING that. CHILL. THE. FUCK. DOWN.

    But I do think you said something that's true though.. JordanN, you shouldn't settle for that tire to be your final. Just look at what a bus tire look like, try to get the grip pattern correct (it's hard), get the separation between metal and rubber to stand out (in a realistic way), model your rim without shortcuts to the actual shape (can be even harder) like those small bevels under the bolts. All of it. You'll know the mighty shit storm that is this thread is will strike down if you don't, right? :poly121::poly142: I don't know if you know how to use the bend modifier, that might be a good way to get you pattern in..

    Good luck!
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 5
    In my opinion the rivets should have been accomplished within the mesh itself and not with separate geometry floaters.

    Just think about how it would be built in real life and try to construct it similarly. If metal pieces are welded or cast from the same material on to each other don't break the smoothing by making them be floaters.
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 7
    Aga22 wrote: »
    whoa i'm impressed.


    not really. your model is wrong in many places, and jacking up the segments won't make a difference.

    Again? What is this? Piss on the noob day? You're 35? Start to act like it..
  • Stockwell
    JordanN wrote: »
    Some of you were doubting if I would ever finish anything again or that I wasn't listening. I threw that in as a counter to both questions.

    That's just plain silly. First of all, you don't have to "counter" us. This isn't magic the gathering, were not trying to hurt you, we're trying to help. If you feel the need to respond, do it with improved art, not shitty wit.


    JordanN wrote: »
    The only things not smoothed out are the bolts and treads.

    Exactly my point.

    EDIT:
    sltrOlsson wrote: »
    What the FUCK is wrong with you?? Do you seriously think that you have an open fucking shit lane to this guy cause Perna told him like it is? There's a difference between being harsh but honest and a fucking douche bag.

    There's been like 10 posts telling him to humble down, start with the right small thing and that the next post should eb art. He did just FUCKING that. CHILL. THE. FUCK. DOWN.

    Jordan, if in any way, i've offended you. Really, i apologize. I really just want you to understand that more work, iteration and practice will be the only way to improve. and that if you want something like knowledge, there is a practical, reasonable way to get that information, with the right attitude, and perseverance.

    sltrOlsson, I don't even, cause you're just taking it worse than he is. I was stoked to actually see a model, that showed improvement in his quality of work this morning. Stoked for him. Telling him to do another one and use what he learned in this first one to make the second better? is pissing on him?

    How many times have you called a piece of art done after your first iteration. NEVER.

    You can call me a fucking douchebag all you want. I only want to see progression from you Jordan. My best teachers were my hardest teachers, my meanest teachers, but they pushed me to learn the more than other teachers did.

    I still stand by what I said, I'd try tackling another one Jordan. Model out flat strips of the treads you can copy and sltrOlsson has a great point about the bend modifier. If used right it could help you make the treads in a much more functional way.

    I'd still like to see a render without a wireframe too.
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 5
    I think what will really help you is making the basic shapes as close to what you see. Then start to modify and cut away. Its the same thing with drawing or painting. If the basic shape or silhouette isn't there, it's not going to look right.
    Take a look at your tire and tell me that the concavity, and the treads reversed out looks right to you? What tire have you ever seen that looks like that?
    Start with a primitive cylinder and start adding loops or champers until you get the right shape, then work your way up from that.
  • Joopson
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    Joopson Polycount Sponsor
    Good job not ragequitting after some of these comments. They aren't untrue, but they are a bit unneededly harsh.

    The biggest thing I'd say, is you have to observe. Make sure the things you're making make sense. Don't blindly follow reference, think critically about the object and how it functions and reacts with the environment.
  • perna
  • Nerf Bat Ninja
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    Nerf Bat Ninja polycounter lvl 7
    I'd rank some of the knowledge bombs dropped in this thread so far up there with the famous Hazardous rant of 2012.

    In the spirit of being productive (or perhaps counter productively taking the easy road rather than learning for yourself) I took 15 seconds of my time and did a quick search on youtube for "how to model a high poly tire." I believe this was the 3rd result:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qmlJfNTmlg
  • Aga22
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    Aga22 polycounter lvl 4
    WarrenM wrote: »
    Aga22

    Really? Go outside and take pictures of tires with a camera? Come on. It sounds like you're looking for any excuse to rag on the guy now.

    "Sculpt a tire from clay first, get a feel for the shapes and the forms. Create a tire in your mind's eye and extrapolate the meaning of the tire in context with the whole body nature of the vehicle it services. COME ON, NOOB!"

    you are judging me, but look at this:

    iwDs4O3XhtIKp.png

    it's his 2nd one and it's obvious he hasn't grasped the shape. looking at things in real life helps. sorry if getting up from your armchair sounds tedious.
  • Aga22
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    Aga22 polycounter lvl 4
    this might help:

    Bridgestone_tire_cross_section.png
  • Joshflighter
  • Spoon
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    Spoon Polycount Sponsor
    the famous Hazardous rant of 2012.

    Whats that? :O
    Can you link me to it, please?


    Good to see you are taking the advice and starting with the tyre. Make a new one from scratch, and try getting the basic shape there, not just from the ortho view, but from all views, as others have mentioned.
    I am certain that if you do a few mores attempts, you will have a decent tyre quite soon :)

    And yes, people here are very harsh, but I think it is a good thing, as long as it is honest. I much prefer that over people just telling you "Oh, good job" if it isnt :)
    Great job not quitting! Keep on it :)
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    I'd rank some of the knowledge bombs dropped in this thread so far up there with the famous Hazardous rant of 2012.


    LOL, which one is that again ?

    Is it this one ?
    http://hazardousarts.deviantart.com/journal/Lacking-Motivation-I-hope-this-helps-359045816
    Put in the time.

    Scared of the results being shit? Doesn't matter.
    Scared of making yourself hate your work? Doesn't matter.
    Scared of not knowing what to draw? Doesn't fucking matter.
    Scared you're doing it wrong? Doesn't mother fucking matter.
    Pick up the pencil right now and drawing a funny looking penis with hairy balls on the paper – ALL THAT MATTERS.

    So do another one.

    Or is it this one, lol.
    http://hazardousarts.deviantart.com/journal/Is-it-Worth-it-Polycount-Thread-297339128
    Let me put my cock hat on for just a second.

    *has now become a dickhead*

    imo n00bs that I have worked with, talked with, hung out with *think* and say they want to be in the games industry, but tbh they only *kind of* want it.

    They want all the cool shit, without the slog through the mud for the first 3 - 5 years to get there. They want instant rockstar status, to tell their friends, to be cool nerds etc.
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