Polycount in 2D! Ideas & Suggestions

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polycounter lvl 12
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Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
Hi Guys,

I´m creating this thread so we can share any ideas related to this new SubForum.

Let´s keep the Ideas and Suggestions for this new 2D SubForum organized in one place only, so Admins can find it easily when researching for future iterations of this Community.

Please share your ideas...


Trying to create a to-do of doables ideas:

[ ] Move those threads to the new 2D Subforum.

- 2D Concepts for Use (Changed)
- Pixel Art (Pending)
- Sketchthread (Changed)
- Concept Tag! (Pending)

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  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycounter lvl 8
    My only hope regarding this section is that it doesn't stop the crossover between mediums. I will still be very regularly visiting the 3D section, it would pain me to see this new forum section basically be the equivalent of taking the sketch thread and moving it away from the exposure it had in the original P&P.

    Perhaps start a "traditional" (non-digital) medium thread? In the same way that the 3D section has things like a lowpoly thread? Not sure how often that happens, something to consider. Hmm...possibly move the newly created 2D Concepts for Use thread over here? Might encourage some of that cross communication between 3D/2D artists I was referring to earlier. Would the pixel art thread also belong over in this section, now?

    I know most of those thoughts involve moving pre-existing polycount stuff into here, but I feel like the success of this section relies entirely on pre-existing polycount activity & community. Without that, there would be no reason for new people to stay.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Agreeed Two Listen, so that´s why I think it´s important to set some "guidelines" even now that the idea of a 2D Polycount is fresh.

    I think this Subforum can consolidate any of these Threads/Sticky Threads around that has, in some sorta of way, 2D Art specific content (Traditional and Digital).

    The 2D Concept Idea, the Pixel-Art and the Sketch Thread definitively would fit here.
  • anglorum
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    anglorum polycounter lvl 4
    I personally figured it would be a perfect fit to keep a thread on this board as a running blog or portfoio. Especially since it seems this board's birth was spurred on by the closure of CGHub and everything.

    Hope that's a valid suggestion! :D I'm personally excited to have a more specified avenue to display my 2d work.
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 13
    What would you like done with the Sketch thread and the WAYWO thread? They're similar to each other. Want me to rename the Sketch thread to WAYWO and close the new one I made? (I'll move over whatever's been posted there first)
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycounter lvl 8
    adam wrote: »
    What would you like done with the Sketch thread and the WAYWO thread? They're similar to each other. Want me to rename the Sketch thread to WAYWO and close the new one I made? (I'll move over whatever's been posted there first)

    Hard to say. You could leave them separate for the time being, and wait to see if they wind up being essentially the same thing, or if the sketch thread becomes more of an actual "sketch" thread now that we have a more designated 2D area. If several days pass and they do wind up being pretty much the same thing, then sure, merge them.

    If that makes things potentially more difficult (merging more content) a few days from now, ...maybe others who are more active in the sketch thread should chime in.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    I do think the Sketch thread can be merged with the WAYWO cause the high traffic of it. It can be a place to go when you have to see/post random 2D Art from people.

    But as Two Listen said, better see what the actual posters there think about that change.
  • Fenyce
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    Fenyce polycounter lvl 4
    Can't wait to see some 2D Game Art around Polycount... I think this Forum would be a good place for this kind of stuff. Since the old P&P almost only had 3D and Concept Art stuff (and of cause the Pixel Thread).
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Here´s some ideas to a SubForum structured based on the ones we already have or had in the past:

    2D 'Pimping & Previews' ->

    -> What are you working on? 2014 Edition:
    The High-traffic, show and leave, place to post anything 2D related. Commenting and Feedback is not necessary otherwise welcomed.

    -> 2D Artists Call:
    I would suggest a more clear/iconic name like '3Dfy it!'; super-creative :-p; but this keeps being -the main place- were 3D guys would visit the 2D lands to get something to work on. Artist who share their images in this thread surely knows and wants to see their ideas in 3D (maybe to see their forms rendered, or see the translation of their style or just create something that can turn in a collaboration between artists)

    -> Pixel-Art:
    Despite the content here being very close to the general 2D Art, a specific fixed thread can serve both as showcase or to exchange tech information about this type of Art.

    -> Concept-Tag:
    I had seen this idea created by Gauss come and go twice and I would bring that again to life just for the sake of the nostalgia (and fun). Basically it was a thread when an Artist post some unfinished art and anyone can "finish" or iterate over it, throwing it for the next artist...creating an Artstein!

    -> Challenges and/or Studies:
    Some kind of group-activity. Using the power of the Internet I could find a suggestion I did years ago. I still think the format could be explored and I would ask you to check here.
    Basically, split the month between: Concept, Study and Illustration themed activities.



    All the thread above are Sticky and below that we can keep the Personal threads for Blogging/Journaling/Project Development.

    ---

    Something like that. ;-) Hope my strange english didn´t turn you guys out of the conversation. Please keep discussing.
  • Lazerus Reborn
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    Lazerus Reborn polycounter lvl 8
    -> Concept-Tag:
    I had seen this idea created by Gauss come and go twice and I would bring that again to life just for the sake of the nostalgia (and fun). Basically it was a thread when an Artist post some unfinished art and anyone can "finish" or iterate over it, throwing it for the next artist...creating an Artstein!

    -> Challenges and/or Studies:
    Some kind of group-activity. Using the power of the Internet I could find a suggestion I did years ago. I still think the format could be explored and I would ask you to check here.
    Basically, split the month between: Concept, Study and Illustration themed activities.

    These definitely have my vote/ Concept tag is/was stickied in pimpin' last time i checked. Get it on over here ;D

    Edit early post/

    Bring over the 2D Call thread and clean it up a bit give it a jazzy name, 'Bank of PC' - 2D Outreach? or something would be nice.
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycounter lvl 8
    These definitely have my vote/ Concept tag is/was stickied in pimpin' last time i checked. Get it on over here ;D

    Do you think we should try to have the old thread pulled over here, or start fresh? I can see certain benefits in starting fresh, would encourage a flow of new ideas/roughs/work to get it started.
  • Lazerus Reborn
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    Lazerus Reborn polycounter lvl 8
    Two Listen wrote: »
    Do you think we should try to have the old thread pulled over here, or start fresh? I can see certain benefits in starting fresh, would encourage a flow of new ideas/roughs/work to get it started.

    A fair point, but currently it gives pretty decent example of how to go about the rules. Both options give fair opportunity and the thread is from 2010 so age/ nostalgia has a bit of weight in it.

    The original was actually from 2005 but all the imgs are dead. On that note the 2010 is still pretty up and working. Maybe clean up any dead imgs and just move it over?
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    I still think there´s no reason to archive the past posts. Does people browse back way too much nowadays?
    Maybe move over here and preserve the first post where Gauss explains the idea...
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycounter lvl 8
    A fair point, but currently it gives pretty decent example of how to go about the rules. Both options give fair opportunity and the thread is from 2010 so age/ nostalgia has a bit of weight in it.

    True enough, I started feeling similarly after looking through it when I went to find it. :)

    If we could get the concept tag thread & the pixel art thread moved over to this section, I'd feel pretty solid about the base set of threads we've got here. I feel like the pixel art thread especially is a nice opportunity to help anchor more of the "game art" feeling of polycount here in this 2D section.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    @Two Listen: sweet. I´m changing the "task-list" above to keep the progress.

    Btw, Lazerus Reborn made a good point about the "nostalgia" factor if it.
    If there´s a way to store them in a 'Public' Gallery, like create a Dropbox, or Pinterest, so year after year we store the past images to archive purposes....
  • Lazerus Reborn
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    Lazerus Reborn polycounter lvl 8
    @Two Listen: sweet. I´m changing the "task-list" above to keep the progress.

    Btw, Lazerus Reborn made a good point about the "nostalgia" factor if it.
    If there´s a way to store them in a 'Public' Gallery, like create a Dropbox, or Pinterest, so year after year we store the past images to archive purposes....

    A script could grab and save all the img's per page and drop them in google doc's or dropbox. I've tinkered with a few in the past and there's firefox/chrome plugins that do the same. You'll need to get the artists name and date in the file name which would require more tinkering.

    Lastly, just have the imgs same into a sync folder and voilla. No more dead's and a archive of everything :)
  • Highelf
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    Highelf polycounter lvl 8
    To quote myself from the CGhub thread (below):

    In particular the part about talking about / reviewing companies. Not sure if you could melt all that into a single thread, but anyway. It would also be something specific to freelancers, so I dont know if it would fit (yet?).
    Highelf wrote: »
    ....[lots of blabla]

    Practically, some ideas for stuff that would be cool:

    Pimping new pieces.
    Discussing 2D art (in general)
    Tutorials + Resources(contract templates, etc) and discussing companies/. (*)
    Industry news
    Individual recaps
    Contests. (for fun)


    *There has been an outcry for a platform where freelancers can openly share, rate and talk about companies, and talk about the business side of freelancing too. Then PACT was made. The only thing is, PACT has a subscription fee. (after they got thousands upon thousands in a kickstarter too, but anyway..)
    Pact was basically made for poor artists who really need resources (contracts) and info (on companies,prices, that kinda stuff) but then the ultimate implementation has a recurring fee - pretty hypocritical, if you ask me. Just an open subforum for this type of discussion would be amazing. For some reason it... doesn't exist yet.

    I bet it shows I have been hoarding a lot of thoughts on this matter! :)
  • moof
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    moof polycounter lvl 7
    On the issue of the sketch thread... I'd say leave it as it.

    There's a difference between wip 2d projects, and sketches.

    A painting for example might go through several 'phases' that are not sketches at all. Also combine that with the fact that mix medium projects exist (such as what I'm currently working on... 2d/3d/animation hybrid); there will be over time an infinite set of stages for mixed media projects as they grow more complex.

    A sketch is, and will always be something that is meant to be 'finished' in that it's presentable as-is material, whether an ongoing project or not.
  • Harford
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    Harford polycounter lvl 6
    All great ideas guys. Will be good to see the 2d section of polycount flourish.

    I planned on renaming the 2D artists call thread once it got a little steam. There's no need to have a confusing name right at the start, as it currently is a call to 2d artists to post their work. Once we have a few pages of art in there people can draw on we can rename it, Which is definitely a good idea.
    I was thinking along the lines of 'port of concepts', or 2d>3d ConceptDock. Whatever works to be cool to say and also self explanatory for new users.

    As for the nostalgia of having all the art in one thread, A pinterest board is a great way to do it that keeps the original creators linked, rather than a dropbox or tumblr.
    Perhaps someone ( me if no-one else volunteers ) can keep a pinterest board up to date with all the images from the 2d call thread.
  • TonyNowak
    I think pixel art would be really cool, that's what I assumed when I saw a 'PolyCount 2D' section.
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 8
    I always thought the best thing about CGHub was that every user had a profile/folio page, and it was also good to be able to find new art through users favorites.

    I've got no idea how much work implementing a system like that is or even if those in charge want to take Polycount down that direction, but I think it would help fill the void Cghub has left for a lot of artists and bring in more users.

    That sort of system feels like the best next big step for Polycount to grow as a website, rather than just remaining solely as a forum.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Ok. Still using more words than Art, but I really doens´t have much to share at this point.

    But, I keep reading stuff in the later discussions and having ideas to this subforum:

    - I still think Sketchbook and WAYWO threads are like the same in content. Creating both instances of it seems harder for me to Admins choose cool art for the Polycount Recap. Two quick suggestions for me would be:

    1. Get rid of the distinction of 2D and 3D WAYWO; unified them as one only. A place to post your wips (3D, 2D, PixelArt, Animations, eg.) to the whole community. The Sketchthread keeps here in the Subforum, as it is.

    2. How/When we can define some threads as sticky? Highelf just created a good one called Pimping my portfolio - please destroy me in a wave of critiques! - that I think is great idea maybe 'Portfolio Critique' only would be a easy to remember name.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Harford wrote: »
    ...As for the nostalgia of having all the art in one thread, A pinterest board is a great way to do it that keeps the original creators linked, rather than a dropbox or tumblr.
    Perhaps someone ( me if no-one else volunteers ) can keep a pinterest board up to date with all the images from the 2d call thread.

    This looks interesting to me Harford. I don´t know how many images a Pinterest boards can hold on, but I´ve seen huges libraries out there.
    If we could automatize the process of 'Copy' a image of a specific thread here, and 'Paste' inside a Pinterest board with the same name, we could offer to the Community a simple and quick way to collect and browse the stuff we create in the the 2D Subforum. But of course, this needed to be scripted, 'cause seems a lot of work.

    ....I think there´s a MessageBoard out there with a similar idea. A huge page who collects all the posted images. Forgot the name...

    But! I can see some people arguing about the Copyrights/Collection issue of their images. Do you guys think this can be a problem ?
  • 2cat
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    2cat wrote: »
    Dado, do you mean http://www.pincg.com/ ?

    No. Not that one, but the idea is the same. It was something really raw, just a page with some javascript that push the images. Probably Apedogs or some Pixel Art community.

    Anyway. The idea is that: a gallery auto-generated by the images we post here.
  • Lephenix
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    Lephenix polycounter lvl 5
    It is so great to see a 2d section! Great job guys! And here's a suggestion: why not moving the 2D Monthly Noob Challenge over here and make it more active in this section of the forum?
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Lephenix wrote: »
    It is so great to see a 2d section! Great job guys! And here's a suggestion: why not moving the 2D Monthly Noob Challenge over here and make it more active in this section of the forum?

    It can be man. I had suggested a Challenge routine a bit different, so we can have multiple topics each week instead of a month.

    ----

    Looking at my FB stream, I can see some CG-HUBlike site or new Hyped-Art-Forum appearing in the following weeks, and I´m afraid that this lessen the steam to bring more 2D for Polycount.

    Maybe we need to set some things already.

    What do you guys think about...?

    1. Merge and/or Rename the SketchThread and WAYWO thread (both are having the same content at this point. Let´s make it easier to post/browse.

    My Suggestion: merge and name it: 2D SKETCH/WAYWO THREAD - 2014

    2. Create/Sticky/Rename the following threads; all in CAPS:
    • 2D WORKSHOPS/CHALLENGES - for all group activities
    • CONCEPT BANK - that 'Post your Concept to Model' thread
    • 2D ANIMATION
    • PIXEL ART
    • LINKS AND RESOURCES

    3. Define a "more visual" naming convention for subject headers

    Mostly trying to use short names descriptions and adding tips
    for the content inside using commas ( ) or -.

    eg.:

    - Penis Tank -> no
    - I painted a PENIS TANK -> no, pls. :-D

    - Penis Tank (model sheet) -> yes
    - Penis Tank (Splash Illustration) -> yes
    - Penis Tank - Redesign Process -> yes
    - Penis Tank - Design Questions -> yes

    I think using common industry terms (ModelSheet, Illustration, Concept Art, Character Sheet, eg) inside commas looks easier to preview that the following thread have a single purpose/type of content. You know what you´ll get.

    While using the "-" between keywords seems more appropriate when the thread has a variety of contents inside, or it has a more "though full" subject.



    Maybe I´m being nitpick. Am I? :-)
    But since Polycount has this fame of having a "ugly" layout (which for me is a good feature), I do think some naming conventions are good to keep stuff clean at the beginning. If we start right, chances that other people follow the it are greater.

    Please, reply with your thoughts, so we can contact the Admins and request some help in making those changes for the next week.
  • Lephenix
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    Lephenix polycounter lvl 5
    I agree with all the above, that's good suggestions.
  • Allan-p
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    Allan-p polycounter lvl 7
    I like the idea of merging since I'm really confused on which area to post now. I mainly head towards sketch thread since that's where I started.

    I'm also starting to notice and may be a problem later, is people posting critiques for their portfolios/ single images, perhaps a sticky thread for critiques?
  • Muzzoid
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    Muzzoid polycounter lvl 8
    Why is that a problem, that's fucking awesome. I want to see more people posting looking for feedback.

    If you want the community to grow let people post what they want to imo.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Hey Allan-P: yep! I do think those threads can be merged without any loose in their original ideas.

    Regarding your note about a unique critique thread. I do agree with Muzz. That´s a characteristic of Polycount. At least to me, share images over here means "to be available" by peers of a same interest/profession (not general audience). So critiques and feedback is intrinsic.

    What I think is a good new habit is "to ask clearly about their doubts". Not just Post and Image and let others figure out the faults.

    But, again. Let´s figure out all that boring part asap so ART became the only subject in the next weeks. ;-)
  • Allan-p
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    Allan-p polycounter lvl 7
    Looking back at that suggestion I made, maybe I shouldn't think at 3 in the morning. I was in facebook clean-up mode for a group and was rabbling on haha.
  • Shadownami92
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    Shadownami92 polycounter lvl 5
    I don't know how doable it is, but would there be a way to handle animation scrubbing the way that quicktime handles it? I know that The 11 Second Club uses quicktime to allow you to scrub through animations to help people see their keyframes and everything better which can allow for better feedback.

    Maybe a way to break down gifs into having a timeline you could scroll through?
  • SaboR1996
    A 2D weekly / monthly challenge would be pretty rad, I like challenges as it would probably motivate me to improve my 2D skills.
  • Muzzoid
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    Muzzoid polycounter lvl 8
    Shadownami, It exists in the form of gfy cat.

    http://gfycat.com/AcrobaticFamousKoodoo

    Just post a link with your gif image :).
  • Allan-p
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    Allan-p polycounter lvl 7
    Does anyone remember the TAG paintover thread? Would be nice to bring that back again.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Allan-p wrote: »
    Does anyone remember the TAG paintover thread? Would be nice to bring that back again.

    Do you mean this one?

    Yeah. It´s already a suggestion. Thanks to note it. It´s that kind of thread some people can use to relax a bit with their arts.
  • Bigjohn
    My vote would be for an activity or a challenge of sorts. Doesn't really matter which. On a weekly basis preferably, since 2D can be a bit quicker than 3D.

    They're just a very good way to learn. I'm looking for stuff like that now especially cause I'm trying to transition into 2D more after doing 3D for years.

    I love the idea of everyone posting work for the same topic in one thread. You see other people's WIPs as they go through the same motions you are, and it makes it very easy to give advice in that format. And you can see how someone more skilled than you tackled the same thing you're trying to tackle.

    Honestly I never cared much about the "winning" aspect of a competition. It's just being in the same boat with a bunch of other people and giving/getting feedback. So it doesn't have to be framed that way. No need for voting or judging. Though it would be nice if a mod could do like an Editor's Pick when one is over to spotlight it.

    It seems to work better than just posting in a random thread and hoping someone sees it.
  • LRoy
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    LRoy polycounter lvl 6
    I think having bigger, once and a while 2d challenges would be better over weekly. After a while people get tired of the weekly ones and they don't get as much attention.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Agreed with both of you guys.

    I can´t give any idea right now because I´m in the rush trying to find some freelance work. But I will try to be part of that first round.

    What I think needs to be done (with the help of the Admin - and if more people agree) is the sticking/merging and renaming suggested before.
  • Bigjohn
    I think the weekly ones and the bigger ones are two fundamentally different things. The weekly ones are more educational, and better for newbs (read: Me), because it's more like a school classroom. If you wanna improve, you gotta be constantly working on it.

    The bigger ones are better for people who are already good, a chance to flex their muscles, and also a chance for folks like me to show (and test) if we can hang with the pros.

    So I don't see the harm in doing both. Especially if it's more casual and it's basically just starting a thread for it once a week and locking the older one. Can be done with a script really.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    What do you guys think about the workflow for this?

    eg:

    -> Theme is set (Life on New Earth, example)
    -> Type of Content is Defined/Fixed ? (Props only, per example)
    -> Artist draws, shares and discuss the ideas through the week in a WIP thread (Life on New Earth - Wips)
    -> After the Deadline, Artist post the final "submissions" (concept plates, model sheets, pitch illustrations) in a FINAL thread (Life on New Earth - Finals)

    I do think this was the routine in CGHUB/CA.Org challenges. Seems fine to me, and doing in separated threads (wips, finals) keeps the whole thing organized in some sorta of way.
  • Bigjohn
    -> Theme is set (Life on New Earth, example)
    -> Type of Content is Defined/Fixed ? (Props only, per example)
    Sounds good. Only problem I can see is if some people want to focus on just characters, or just landscapes, or whatever. Not a big deal anyway.

    -> Artist draws, shares and discuss the ideas through the week in a WIP thread (Life on New Earth - Wips)
    This is great. As long as each artist doesn't make a new thread for his WIP. All the WIPs should be in one thread. That encourages greater discussion.
    -> After the Deadline, Artist post the final "submissions" (concept plates, model sheets, pitch illustrations) in a FINAL thread (Life on New Earth - Finals)
    This is fine, but I think it's just over-complicating things from an administrative point of view. Who's gonna maintain that? And then someone has to judge it, or else there's voting. It's just too much busywork for whoever it is that runs it. I say simply posting your final image in the main thread is good enough. Then maybe an editor can just pick something that looks good and spotlight it. Can do that the same day that the new activity is posted.

    It's really more about making stuff than it is about "winning" something. Since there's not really any rewards, I think an Editor's pick is good enough. No need for voting. Can do voting for a bigger competition that happens more rarely if needed.
  • 2cat
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    2cat polycounter lvl 5
    Maybe you guys can take a look at http://conceptartsessions.com/

    They have way shorter time limits, but also have categories(props, creatures, vehicles, environment etc) and then you can choose to generate 1 to 3 theme keywords for your art piece.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    @Bigjohn: sound fine to me. I never though about Winners in such challenges.

    @2Cat: sweet idea for sure. But I cant stand anymore those speed-art mindset. Man, how people can develop art in 1h/30min?

    What´s the next step guys?
  • 2cat
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    2cat polycounter lvl 5
    @2Cat: sweet idea for sure. But I cant stand anymore those speed-art mindset. Man, how people can develop art in 1h/30min?

    Well I didn't mean to emphasize the time aspect, mostly generating keywords and the categories.

    Next step I think is to just take the next step. Maybe start a small 2D contest?
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    @2Cat: I got it. I just note it to remind people that small time-frames can´t be a mindset over here.

    Well. I´m up for it 2Cat. Do you guys have any ideas in how to generate those themes?
  • Dudestein
    Great suggestions everyone. Keep them coming if you have them.
  • Bigjohn
    What´s the next step guys?

    Honestly, it can be as simple as pick a date (say in a week from now so people know), and on that date start a thread with a theme.

    Maybe make some other thread now called Activity Ideas, or suggestions or something, where people can suggest themes. That way you have an easy bank to pull from.
  • Dado Almeida
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    Dado Almeida polycounter lvl 12
    Consider it done. Maybe the title is good enough ;-D

    The Weekly Activity - Themes Thread
  • metaD
    First, its been years I was thinking : damn, if only there was a 2D polycount !
    And now,Its here !

    Gir-3-invader-zim-10953673-300-351.jpg


    Dado Almeida :

    Everything you said here so far is a total thumb up for me, naming, activity, fursion of sketch and waywo.

    About speedpaint stuff : kinda annoyed by it too, I feel like most of the time they smash their paint all over and throw its around.

    TAG paintover, dowant, really.




    Err, Its probably suggested somewhere, and I thinks its not totally 2D, but, what about a "Texture this" activity thread ?

    like "this mounth is jelly rock theme ! lets makes jelly rock textures woooh" what ya think ?
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