Multi-Player Level Design

Cheathem

Hi everyone.
I've been working on this level for a couple days now and I'm starting to like hows it's coming along. There's really no purpose to this other than for the experience in building levels and learning about level design. This map is still very early in development but I hope to take this map pretty far if it continues to look promising, and ill keep this thread updated on any updates.

Critiques would be awesome if you have any as I want to get better at this stuff, and if you feel like sharing any helpful tips, tutorials, ect, then that would be great.

Thanks for reading!

P.S sorry if the naming scheme is confusing.

Also, I think im inspired by Counterstike:Global Offensive, and halo's level design. Im a big fan of both those games and their levels. this map is obviously more CS:GO oriented.

Also Also, im using unity game engine to test everything, 3ds max to build it.

Thanks again.

Bases at top and bottom, side buildings on the sides, middle building in the middle.


:


Door on the left leads to the room in the photo below.Bridge and balcony in middle of image, Center building on the right:


First Room in Side Building(Left goes to middle room in this building, Right goes to balcony:


middle of side building(Attaches to the room in the photo above:


Middle Building looking at a base:


:


:


Balcony and Bridge:


Base Top:


Base Bottom:

KazeoHin

WAAAY too open. you can practically see the entire map from any point. It needs more compartmentalisation. Put up some walls and cover.

other than that, its a great start to an arena style map.

BARDLER

Tons of info here for all kinds of different games http://worldofleveldesign.com/

LANKUS MAXIMUS

I agree with Kazeo.

Nice start, but in terms of fundamental arena style design, it's way to open. Segregate areas with cover and prop placement. Maybe a few choke points and flanking route's.

You should aim for different progressive routes instead of just a mirrored layout...

All the best!

cholden

^- what he said. In addition, you NEED visibility culling as everything will be rendering all the time absolutely slaying performance.

I'm also generally down on symmetrical designs. It's a bit lazy. Even in a good team DM or CTF style match, symmetrical layouts can be masked artistically.

Justin Meisse

That actually looks very similar to the Four Points map in Loadout, it plays fairly well.

LANKUS MAXIMUS

It is indeed pretty similar to Four Points. Emphasis on the 'fairly' though.

You'd be surprised how much of a difference it makes to have an elevated area in the map center, as apposed to Loadout's 'pit point' approach...

Higuy

Looks interesting, way too open though. I think you might want to add some areas/change them around to create more vantage points too (that are obviously a bit more vulnerable as well)

I'd advise also adding some kind of cover to the big courtyards in front of each "base". Maybe some big pillars or something that are connected. Just an idea.

You'll also want a way for each side to be aesthetically different, and then each point to have something a bit unique for players to locate their position easily. It's always a pain to try and figure that out, especially in a map like this (or eg Wizard from H1) where your constantly moving about

it looks like a solid layout, interested in seeing what you show next!

Shrike

It looks kinda fun so far, but in general asymetric maps are more exciting than symetrical ones, and you didnt just make it symetrical, you made it symetric in 2 direction, having 4 times the same part basically

There are some good speeches on youtube, but else theres really not much to find about leveldesign aside of books.

Cheathem

So its too open, needs some breaks in the symmetry and some alternative paths, and needs some distinguishing factors.

Thanks everyone for the responses, I hope to have some updates soon.

To do: (feel free to recommend ideas.)

Props and cover - crates first.

Breaks in symmetry - maybe some collapsed architecture would be interesting, and could even introduce some alternative paths.

Alternative paths - I have some ideas.

Distinguishing factors - colored flags? (seems like a cop out). Maybe lighting could be a big distinguishing factor? Vegitation, map dammage, symbols unigue to each base.

Let me know if im missing anything important.

LANKUS MAXIMUS

Sounds like a solid list dude.

As for your distinguishing factor's question - Coloured flags have always been a classic means of creating contrasted territory. Faction related graffiti and colour schemes etc.

You could also go for a drastic change in the environment's nature. For example. The main raised wall you have running through the centre of your map could be a prison/outer wall of a base or compound?

So you could essentially keep the same layout but have the bottom half appear as if it's a prison/base with thee other side being populated by vegetation and trenches or slum like structures in a city outside the wall. Basic contrast that I have given there but still, contrast can help define a map.

I look forward to seeing your development's

Cheathem

Hey everyone, I'm back with a small update. I've only been tinkering with the layout, so theirs no eye candy yet d:

Changes Made:

• Pillars have been taken out and windows have been added. This makes the map feel more closed and makes less of the map visible from any given point.

• The interior for the side buildings have changed to make for a better combat. Added a outside back side to the building, and blocked one of the hallway's visibility with a wall so you can't see down the hall at an enemy.

• the center building has turned more into a building rather than a stage. Again, this helped close in the map some and lower visibility.

• I didn't want to cut visibility to much on this map because i wanted to keep it fun for snipers. Snipers can see across map through windows but it will be more of a challenge.

• Currently, I'm working on creating some more alternative paths and i have to remake and redesign the room at the bottom of the bases.

• Alternate pathway ideas include a sort of sewer system, a path way connecting from the bottom room of each base to a side building, probably below near the bridge.

• Still have lots of figuring to do so who knows how the layout will turn out.

That's it for today. As always, any crits or input would be awesome!
Thanks for reading.


Images:

Gotta add door and bottom room on base


Large buildings on far left and right will help distinguish each side and break symmetry a bit as well as add to the environment's exterior


Outside alt path. Going to add crates and cover, and some cool outside like a cliff.


Side Buildings interior. A: wall used to break visibility. B: crates will be used to again break visibility and for cover.


Also thinking of adding a bottom to this building, or an alt path that leads in from the floor (Stairs, Hole in the floor, ect)

KB.Arreza

My no.1 rule for multiplayer maps: Don't let the players rest!

Make it asymmetrical. It's too even (I know people have already said it but it's important).

Because you're just beginning with level design, start small.
Look at the classic CS map 'de_dust' as a starting point. It's a small map, but it had plenty of places that could give players advantages, but also left them exposed from another direction.

Corridors - try to shorten them, to give folks with a shotgun a chance against a sniper rifle. Same deal with the open spaces.

If you're putting doors in, make them glass doors, or something because if a player can't see though it, they'll think two things:
1. "Can't go through that way."
2. "Someone's probably camping on the other side."
Alternative is to make the door adjacent just like in de_dust.

The central room in "A": some of those walls are redundant.

Other than that, its good. Would like to see it when it's more polished.

Cheathem

KB.Arreza - you and everyone one else are completely right. I just keep blowing it off in fear of frustration i guess. Anyways, I'm brain storming now and ill be posting some alternative layouts to help break the symmetry. Here's the first idea.

Im thinking along the lines of adding a large entrance gate behind that new bridge. The bridge and the buildings it connects to offer some different battle zones and alt paths.

Im also thinking of moving the spawn zones to A2 and B2 and doing something different with A and B

Tell me what you all think.
Ill post more ideas when i get them

Cheathem

This map design is taking a complete turn around, i want to go with the redesign im working on but its frustrating because id pretty much redoing all of it d:

Oh well, whatever i do with it ill post it here.

Fartuess

Generally in level design symmetry is your enemy. Especially when tactics are important.

Also... some usefull tips on CS level design:
http://worldofleveldesign.com/categories/csgo-tutorials/csgo-how-to-design-gameplay-map-layouts.php
http://worldofleveldesign.com/categories/csgo-tutorials/csgo-principles-choke-point-level-design.php

Butthair

Have you played the map? Can we see a gameplay with some bots? This could be the funnest map ever made, but I've not seen how it's played.

Higuy

Cheathem wrote: »

This idea seems much better than the one you just posted imo.

The problem with the one posted is that its still way to symetrical on all sides and corners, and also looks less appealing to play in.

That image though, qouted above, looks great. Only issue would be that you could shoot from base to base due to the small gap, but that courtyard looks really cool.

Cheathem

Fartuess : Thanks for posting those videos, I've half seen them before but wasn't interested in level design at that time.Ill definitely re watch them.


Butthair : I wish I could show gameplay, It's all inside unity and I dont know anything about setting up AI. I could video my self walking through it though.


Higuy : I'm sort of on the fence on the design right now, i'll definitely have to play around with it in 3D before deciding on a the direction. And i do think that gap allowing base to base shooting is needs to be addressed.


Going to be posting more layouts soon. If i get bored for a moment, ill make some props for you all to look at and critique. Thanks for the responses everyone, their really appreciated.

KB.Arreza

Cheathem wrote: »

KB.Arreza - you and everyone one else are completely right. I just keep blowing it off in fear of frustration i guess. Anyways, I'm brain storming now and ill be posting some alternative layouts to help break the symmetry. Here's the first idea.

Im thinking along the lines of adding a large entrance gate behind that new bridge. The bridge and the buildings it connects to offer some different battle zones and alt paths.

Im also thinking of moving the spawn zones to A2 and B2 and doing something different with A and B

Tell me what you all think.
Ill post more ideas when i get them

I like this design iteration more than the others so far so I'll base my suggestions off this image.

Get rid of the whole two ramps at each corner deal. Still too symmetrical on that front.

Windows:
- They're everywhere: Pretty much what Higuy said. The windows at A1, I would assume are the same at B1. So essentially you have a spawn kill situation going there.
- That middle building: Instead of having five small windows how about two, or three larger ones? Maybe cover one up with props for protection against enemy snipers?
- Those walkways - no windows. Instead, have a half-wall.

Under that central building, try put in a low ceiling walkway.

I guess overall, what urks me the most is that the map is square. Think of having an overall layout like the tetris blocks - except the square one!

Look, the best advice I can give you is playtest - again, and again, with each iteration that you make. It's multiplayer so grab a friend (or a few) and play the map together - see what they think. It's what we need to do as level designers.

Cheathem

Thanks for the advice KB.Arreza. I'm thinking about starting from scratch and properly approaching the design with what I've learned from this attempt. I think it would get further that way.

LMP

Cheathem wrote: »

Thanks for the advice KB.Arreza. I'm thinking about starting from scratch and properly approaching the design with what I've learned from this attempt. I think it would get further that way.

That's not a bad idea.
I saw this video today that you may find use... well, insightful.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjrOaoHz9s"]Extra Credits: Fail Faster - YouTube[/ame]

Cheathem

Very inspiring video LMP, Thanks for the boost

KazeoHin

In multiplayer design, my rules (it's been awhile, so better philosophy may exist) :

A good level is constructed from multiple 'spaces' put together by 'pathways' to form a whole map. The more 'spaces', the more confusing the map is, but most likely the more players it can handle.

A 'space' is any isolated 'area', 'room' 'section' or 'floor'. Anything that can be described by a word. Like "the blue room" or "the middle bridge" or "the courtyard". These spaces need to be unique, with unique sightlines, unique visual cues, unique descriptions. You don't want two 'spaces' to have an equally advantageous sightline/access over one area: this creates player stagnation and stalemates. Have a rock-paper-scissors approach (IE, courtyard has the high-ground on lobby, lobby can easily snipe down sewer, sewer has multiple, unpredictable entries into courtyard.) a good rule of thumb is that every 'space' should never have less than three or more than five 'pathways' to/from it: ther should always be three entrances but only two exits. These can be the two-way pathways IE two doors for exit can also be used as an entrance, or one- way pathways like jump-pads, cliffs or high-windows. Just try to male sure of your 3-5 pathways, 3 of them can be used to enter the space, only 2 of them can be used to exit. Each pathway ideally leads to a different space, but that dowsing have to be the case. If a space has two exits that lead to two different areas of one space, that can be acceptable: but a skilled player can use this to bring the entire game to a standstill if done wrong.

A 'pathway' is any door, window, hole, elevator, jump-pad, teleporter, etc that allows the player to travel between 'spaces'. Ideally, 'pathways' should be AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE. a long hallway connecting two 'spaces' becomes it's own 'space', and thus needs to follow the rules of being a 'space', or else it becomes boring and frustrating.

Simply try to create the bare minimum level that fits these requirements and you'll find some fun gameplay.

Try to make a level that has three spaces. Each space has three pathways, but only two of those pathways are exits, all three are entrances. Each space connects with the other two spaces somehow.

Cheathem

Awesome advive kazeoHin, im definitely taking notes here.