that is a good name too! i will note this name down and discuss with my partner for this set and see what he thinks thanks a lot for your help as well >3<~~~
my side chinese ancestor was great and sacrifice their wealth for building a community to teaching and giving pressure on government to enable their next generation having chance to learn chinese
i'm lucky having a chance to learn chinese during primary and secondary school, those older writing i was able to pick up when watching early 70-90's HK movies
note: thailand and indonesian chinese don't even have a proper chance to pick up chinese due to government does not allow them studying in standard school. (i guess so, i never hear there is a chinese in thailand/indonesia that can speak/write chinese there unless they are working for travel agency and pick up for job purpose... oh ya even Korea too, the tour guide used to be told us that they have chinese school but now is like left only 4 schools in south korea.)
aww the courier is really cute! but I would definitely make the flying version 1. there is just something incredibly cool about whales gliding through the air. I wouldn't even make the fins more winglike.
I think you should try to stop using the really thin feathers/fur. It just doesn't work very well with dota, as there are strict limits to geometry and alpha maps. Actually overall high density detail becomes noise in game, so it should be avoided. Just a pointer
I think you should try to stop using the really thin feathers/fur. It just doesn't work very well with dota, as there are strict limits to geometry and alpha maps. Actually overall high density detail becomes noise in game, so it should be avoided. Just a pointer
While lots of detail certainly turn to noise ingame and is something that should be avoided, I disagree on not using that kind of feather and fur. Yes, Mirana doesn't have the biggest budget, but I don't really see a reason for not doing the feathers. They flow really well, and they can be done very easily with alpha, while the amount of detail can be also easily controlled on the 3D stage, specially since from the concept, the 'style' of the feathers seems to be quite open ended. I'd actually go ahead and say that feathers and fur are pretty much the bread and butter of Dota (though I may probably be biased), and they're what make most of this set work.
All in all, I don't see any major problems on the design. Maybe some of the sleeve will need to be spliced up and go into the shoulder slot.
As I already told Potm, I really really like the asymmetry, all shapes are flowing nicely, and the contrast between the feathers and cloth is also pretty good. The hairstyle is gorgeous with the white accents and I like how the mount is shaping up so far.
Again, I think most of the 'minor' issues are going to be solved on the 3D stage by whoever picks the concept up, and some adjustments may be required on the sleeve since Mirana has awful budgets, but the design is real solid.
While lots of detail certainly turn to noise ingame and is something that should be avoided, I disagree on not using that kind of feather and fur. Yes, Mirana doesn't have the biggest budget, but I don't really see a reason for not doing the feathers. They flow really well, and they can be done very easily with alpha, while the amount of detail can be also easily controlled on the 3D stage, specially since from the concept, the 'style' of the feathers seems to be quite open ended. I'd actually go ahead and say that feathers and fur are pretty much the bread and butter of Dota (though I may probably be biased), and they're what make most of this set work.
The only way to make it work with alpha without getting the jagged-edges is to actually provide a lot of UV space for feathers by either making them bigger in the uv (leaving less space for everything else) or by creating several main feather with a lot of UV that are then copied and scaled several times to create the feathering (at the cost of a lot of geometry). The first method looks terrible most of the time, the second thought is fine as long as you don't need too many feathers.
And I would strongly disagree about feathers and fur being bread and butter of Dota. I really don't understand how did you even get that idea XD. While quite a few characters have fur, it is usually more clumpy and exaggerated to be well defined from the Dota camera view. Feathers are much more rare and while certainly they can be a major part of some characters (WD or SS for example) they are also usually quite large and exaggerated. So overall you almost never see small and thin feathers or fur parts, because they, as I've mentioned, simply turn into noise from a distance. IMO the definition of fur/feathers plays little role in the whole design => if Potm changed her Potm design to have larger feathers/fur it would barely affect the design in itself and might even make it look better (and obviously better in game).
If were are talking about designs in general: designs usually do have an idea behind them, but what makes the designs great is the flow, form and color and not a certain tiny part of it.
Vovo, to be honest, i know nothing about 3d and centinally sont know anything about alph map or UV map, i dont know what can be made and what not. but i persoanlly dont want to limit myself due to the amount of polygons etc. for me, if i always scared about overing the budget, my design will just turn out plain boring. i rather making designs that may not work, but worth a try! i mean, if the design doesnt work at the end, the modeler can let me know, then we can try something else. but if u ban myself from the beginning, then that is just sad.
and what i draw doesnt have to turn out in that way. i always tell the modeler to feel dree and change the design as long as it looks good. there is no right or wrong, just a better choice overall. so ya O:
Vovo, to be honest, i know nothing about 3d and centinally sont know anything about alph map or UV map, i dont know what can be made and what not. but i persoanlly dont want to limit myself due to the amount of polygons etc. for me, if i always scared about overing the budget, my design will just turn out plain boring. i rather making designs that may not work, but worth a try! i mean, if the design doesnt work at the end, the modeler can let me know, then we can try something else. but if u ban myself from the beginning, then that is just sad.
and what i draw doesnt have to turn out in that way. i always tell the modeler to feel dree and change the design as long as it looks good. there is no right or wrong, just a better choice overall. so ya O:
but thank you for your suggestion and concern ^-^
But when you're concepting for Dota, you actually are concepting 3d models; that's what's being created, here.
A concept artist doesn't need to be a 3d modeler to be successful. But I would consider someone who:
- understands how something will be approached by a modeler
- grasps the technical limitations
- considers how the final asset will be presented in game, and
- can create a solid design with the above factors in mind
a pretty great concept artist, and is usually a pleasure and a benefit to work with.
It totally is great when a concept artist isn't married to their design down to the millimeter and is cool with the modeler doing what is needed to make it a stronger asset. But a concept person should understand enough about the workflow to minimize the need for design changes in the modeling phase for technical reasons.
Just some thoughts from a 3d person who is also a 2d person sometimes and has worked with a number of concept artists in the past.
i understand your consideration, its always an assist to learn something extra afterall. and if i have the time to i would do that as well. but right now i really do not have the time to do so. full time work plus other staffs. anyhow, i agree on you, learning those things will make my design even stronger probably, but right now, i will jusy have to rely on other people instead of knowing everything myself. hopefully i will have the time to learn those.things though
Potm you don't really need to know zbrush, that is just a phase, and not the most important one (and not your job, if you work with a modeler, the modeler should research or know whatever is needed for the project, so you get the best feathers, fur, materials, etc).. if you want to have some 3d knowledge I would say u need to start with knowing about the final thing the low/high poly.. how is a model built.. how does texture cut, where to use symetry etc.. stuff that you can pick up in a day, and when you do a concept think of how that stuff may be built/textured.
Makes you faster, and better, it doesn't restrict you, you are already restricted just that you may not know it..
If you were designing a shoe, you would need to know how people actually make shoes, to come up with a competitive shoe product, why would it be different for a virtual item? btw, shoe designers don't actually melt plastic, prepare animal skin, sew the parts.. but they have a pretty good idea of how it's done.
However since the fuss here is mostly about the feathers.. a lot of the times "less is more".. You should think of the shoulder for example.. where will that be visible?:
1 portrait view
2 from game view
3 when someone MAYBE zoom's in
so what is the most important point of view for that item? make it look good and read there (here it would be portrait, and MAYBE game view)
haha thank you Panda~ and ya, i should learn those things bit by bit! somehow there are a lot of modelers willing to teach me those basic staffs, which im really thankful~~~~ (hug them all!)
and well, the feather is really for the portrait view, although i didn't relaly think of the size of the feather that should be, but in between not big but not small sounds good to me after all xD well well, we will see how it goes hahaha
1 would be nice if you have a story for it.. why does she wear feathers when riding a fox with a tail of feathers? (when her main animal is a panther/tiger)
2 your feathers can be defined better (feathers don't need to be just 1 color, they can have an outline that makes them more visible, and adds more depth to the set)
3 your mount needs anatomy, if a fox is your base animal, do an anatomy study to understand the muscles and proportions, facial expressions, etc. Your mount looks like it's straight out of Tom and Jerry.. no hints of muscles or realism. Muscles, attitude and fecial expression should be used to "sell" the mount and make it stand out from the rest.
I believe the mount is the weak point here.
Sorry to be negative but it's kind of needed
didnt post for a longlong while O: and the Mirana ends up that i have to redesign it of course mehahaha!
Thanks for your suggestion as well Panda, i totally agree with you and from time to time i look at the mount, yes it's not something that is outstanding mehahaha
anyway, better start a new topic!
She has no skirt..opps! (I mean, i will add one soon!!!!)
Thank you Rowan for modeling it!
This was the design (didn't draw the skirt cause has no time), change quite a few things as the model goes through
the wing will be in the skirt slot, hopefully will have enough polygons!
Replies
my country don't even have a proper chinese lesson there... .__.
and really? how do you learn all these chiense then if you didn't take any chinese lesson? O:
vs set on going
i'm lucky having a chance to learn chinese during primary and secondary school, those older writing i was able to pick up when watching early 70-90's HK movies
note: thailand and indonesian chinese don't even have a proper chance to pick up chinese due to government does not allow them studying in standard school. (i guess so, i never hear there is a chinese in thailand/indonesia that can speak/write chinese there unless they are working for travel agency and pick up for job purpose... oh ya even Korea too, the tour guide used to be told us that they have chinese school but now is like left only 4 schools in south korea.)
Well lets give this courier a gender, a boy :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD to be my baby boyfriend mehahah!
Thanks thanks thanksss to MdK to make this baby real
nearly finish, i have to redesign the cape into wings cause someone suggested me that it may look like Drow >.<!!!!
and bigger shoulder and bigger horn
i should draw like this from now on...
up for grab, still unfinished though
While lots of detail certainly turn to noise ingame and is something that should be avoided, I disagree on not using that kind of feather and fur. Yes, Mirana doesn't have the biggest budget, but I don't really see a reason for not doing the feathers. They flow really well, and they can be done very easily with alpha, while the amount of detail can be also easily controlled on the 3D stage, specially since from the concept, the 'style' of the feathers seems to be quite open ended. I'd actually go ahead and say that feathers and fur are pretty much the bread and butter of Dota (though I may probably be biased), and they're what make most of this set work.
All in all, I don't see any major problems on the design. Maybe some of the sleeve will need to be spliced up and go into the shoulder slot.
As I already told Potm, I really really like the asymmetry, all shapes are flowing nicely, and the contrast between the feathers and cloth is also pretty good. The hairstyle is gorgeous with the white accents and I like how the mount is shaping up so far.
Again, I think most of the 'minor' issues are going to be solved on the 3D stage by whoever picks the concept up, and some adjustments may be required on the sleeve since Mirana has awful budgets, but the design is real solid.
The only way to make it work with alpha without getting the jagged-edges is to actually provide a lot of UV space for feathers by either making them bigger in the uv (leaving less space for everything else) or by creating several main feather with a lot of UV that are then copied and scaled several times to create the feathering (at the cost of a lot of geometry). The first method looks terrible most of the time, the second thought is fine as long as you don't need too many feathers.
And I would strongly disagree about feathers and fur being bread and butter of Dota. I really don't understand how did you even get that idea XD. While quite a few characters have fur, it is usually more clumpy and exaggerated to be well defined from the Dota camera view. Feathers are much more rare and while certainly they can be a major part of some characters (WD or SS for example) they are also usually quite large and exaggerated. So overall you almost never see small and thin feathers or fur parts, because they, as I've mentioned, simply turn into noise from a distance. IMO the definition of fur/feathers plays little role in the whole design => if Potm changed her Potm design to have larger feathers/fur it would barely affect the design in itself and might even make it look better (and obviously better in game).
If were are talking about designs in general: designs usually do have an idea behind them, but what makes the designs great is the flow, form and color and not a certain tiny part of it.
Vovo, to be honest, i know nothing about 3d and centinally sont know anything about alph map or UV map, i dont know what can be made and what not. but i persoanlly dont want to limit myself due to the amount of polygons etc. for me, if i always scared about overing the budget, my design will just turn out plain boring. i rather making designs that may not work, but worth a try! i mean, if the design doesnt work at the end, the modeler can let me know, then we can try something else. but if u ban myself from the beginning, then that is just sad.
and what i draw doesnt have to turn out in that way. i always tell the modeler to feel dree and change the design as long as it looks good. there is no right or wrong, just a better choice overall. so ya O:
but thank you for your suggestion and concern ^-^
It will be hard but also quite fun
but it just turns out aweful and, my computer cannot handle is and just keep on shut down itself randomly (i use laptop)
hopefully i will be able to buy a new computer soon Q_Q
But when you're concepting for Dota, you actually are concepting 3d models; that's what's being created, here.
A concept artist doesn't need to be a 3d modeler to be successful. But I would consider someone who:
- understands how something will be approached by a modeler
- grasps the technical limitations
- considers how the final asset will be presented in game, and
- can create a solid design with the above factors in mind
a pretty great concept artist, and is usually a pleasure and a benefit to work with.
It totally is great when a concept artist isn't married to their design down to the millimeter and is cool with the modeler doing what is needed to make it a stronger asset. But a concept person should understand enough about the workflow to minimize the need for design changes in the modeling phase for technical reasons.
Just some thoughts from a 3d person who is also a 2d person sometimes and has worked with a number of concept artists in the past.
i understand your consideration, its always an assist to learn something extra afterall. and if i have the time to i would do that as well. but right now i really do not have the time to do so. full time work plus other staffs. anyhow, i agree on you, learning those things will make my design even stronger probably, but right now, i will jusy have to rely on other people instead of knowing everything myself. hopefully i will have the time to learn those.things though
Makes you faster, and better, it doesn't restrict you, you are already restricted just that you may not know it..
If you were designing a shoe, you would need to know how people actually make shoes, to come up with a competitive shoe product, why would it be different for a virtual item? btw, shoe designers don't actually melt plastic, prepare animal skin, sew the parts.. but they have a pretty good idea of how it's done.
However since the fuss here is mostly about the feathers.. a lot of the times "less is more".. You should think of the shoulder for example.. where will that be visible?:
1 portrait view
2 from game view
3 when someone MAYBE zoom's in
so what is the most important point of view for that item? make it look good and read there (here it would be portrait, and MAYBE game view)
and well, the feather is really for the portrait view, although i didn't relaly think of the size of the feather that should be, but in between not big but not small sounds good to me after all xD well well, we will see how it goes hahaha
thank you for your suggestion as well
Done
1 would be nice if you have a story for it.. why does she wear feathers when riding a fox with a tail of feathers? (when her main animal is a panther/tiger)
2 your feathers can be defined better (feathers don't need to be just 1 color, they can have an outline that makes them more visible, and adds more depth to the set)
3 your mount needs anatomy, if a fox is your base animal, do an anatomy study to understand the muscles and proportions, facial expressions, etc. Your mount looks like it's straight out of Tom and Jerry.. no hints of muscles or realism. Muscles, attitude and fecial expression should be used to "sell" the mount and make it stand out from the rest.
I believe the mount is the weak point here.
Sorry to be negative but it's kind of needed
Thanks for your suggestion as well Panda, i totally agree with you and from time to time i look at the mount, yes it's not something that is outstanding mehahaha
anyway, better start a new topic!
She has no skirt..opps! (I mean, i will add one soon!!!!)
Thank you Rowan for modeling it!
This was the design (didn't draw the skirt cause has no time), change quite a few things as the model goes through
the wing will be in the skirt slot, hopefully will have enough polygons!
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii QooooooooooooooooQ love her! OMGOMG THANK YOUU ROWANNNN (sorry CM i love your sis more from now on </3...)
finally, i have a set in workshop after all these months! Thanks a lot Rowan for collab with me and make my design come into real ^o^!
please vote if you like the set enough~ The loading screen came out better than i expected, but next time i need to spend more time to draw on it
(i used around 5 hours to paintover this right now hm...)
hopefully its gonna finish soon!
this is the first time i do texture ahhh XD
Finally finish the set ^0^
looking for modeler, its for warhammer, thanks~