Workshop Thread :)

polycounter lvl 7
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Noth polycounter lvl 7
Hey guys, I'm going to take a crack at making a courier. I'm going to have some questions once I get out of the modelling/texturing phase that's for sure. So I'll be relying on you guys then. :) This painting isn't done quite yet I don't think, but its good enough to start modelling :)

1GZfGOM.jpg

Any ideas on how he should carry items?

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  • Sukotto
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    Sukotto sublime tool
    Sorry to burst your bubble but there's already an Asian dragon courier in game, Azuremir
  • Gaiascope
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    Gaiascope polycounter lvl 3
    There's already a serpent-like dragon courier in the game. You might want to take a very close look at it and consider if you can make this different enough to not cause issues of too similar items. But if I'm frank, I don't think it's possible to create a courier out of the design you proposed in that art and have it be different enough from the existing one.

    You might want to reconsider this design or the idea of a chinese dragon courier completely.

    EDIT: Ninja'd by Sukotto
  • BladeofEvilsBane
    The painting looks really good, but I would honestly stray from the design. There is already the azuremir courier in game, and another dragon courier was submitted into the workshop today. It's your call, I'm just be concerned about the duplicity of it. (on another note, this already looks like it's styled after Dragon Knight, maybe make it an ult? That would be incredibly badass)

    Edit: Ninja'd by Gaiascope ninja'd by Sukotto
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    I've seen Azuremir, but thought with a decent design it could be considered for the Chinese New Year event release. I haven't seen the newer one in the workshop though. I'll look for that, if someone beat me to the punch for the New Year event then I'll certainly reconsider.
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    Ah, so I found the little jade dragon. I was going to take it in a more serious direction with traditional red and gold colours- something more powerful. This is where I'm at now.

    xWLEdRo.jpg

    What you think, worth continuing?
  • BladeofEvilsBane
    It's a tough call, I think he may be too detailed for legibility in the game and I know for a fact it will be compared to azuremir at this current stage. It might be better to scrap it honestly, but you could prove us wrong if you have your heart set on it
  • Gaiascope
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    Gaiascope polycounter lvl 3
    With honesty bordering on brutality, I think the best thing to do in this situation is to scrap the concept. Or at the very least abandon hopes of this getting into the workshop. If you're extremely passionate about this and confident your courier can stand up against the inevitable comparisons with Azuremir and now the Little Jade Dragon as well, by all means.

    But I think it would be wiser to pick your battles and walk away from this one. It's harsh and extremely unfortunate, but you could probably better spend your time working on something else.
  • Spudnik
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    Spudnik polycounter lvl 5
    Everything the other guys have said is true BUT if your really have your heart set on the dragon, you can think about a different way to present him. For example, there was already a asian dragon courier in the game when we made Azuremir, this guy:

    256px-Cosmetic_icon_Osky_the_Ottragon.png

    But he's short and cute and flies using wings so we went for the opposite with the more badass, long and flowing approach. The point is, the way the model is presented ingame is what matters, as long as it's different enough there, the base idea can be the same.

    But yeah, it is adding another artificial wall of difficulty for yourself.
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    Ended up going with something a little less time consuming, CC welcome, support appreciated.

    Thanks for info guys, Spudnik your heads up was helpful.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=213076051


    Here are some images of the completed PL weapon.

    aD4UGoY.jpg
    b0ecIX9.jpg
    PFIIOnY.jpg



    next creation lined up is Enchantress Hair. :)

    ugOtH9Z.jpg

    Symbol in hair pin is 'Horse'
  • AndrewHelenek
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    AndrewHelenek polycounter lvl 4
    Noth wrote: »
    Ah, so I found the little jade dragon. I was going to take it in a more serious direction with traditional red and gold colours- something more powerful. This is where I'm at now.

    xWLEdRo.jpg

    What you think, worth continuing?

    640px-I-came-ghostbuster_zps8359d55f.jpg

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, YES! I feel like the animations will be very similar to Azuremir but I think there's room for a courier like this, and oh my days how hard do I want it. Personally, I feel this design is stronger then Azuremir, plus its a Korean themed dragon, not Chinese. It's Dota, there's room for everything, as long as the community wants it. Post it on Reddit, see how people react there. Use the line "What do you think?", they eat that shit up, redditors love to voice their opinion when given the oppertunity.
    Sukotto wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your bubble but there's already an Asian dragon courier in game, Azuremir

    'Korean'

    Personally, the validity of whether an item is acceptable or not shouldn't be a consern. It's a strong design, personally feel its stronger then the other serpent dragon in the game, it's also playing off a different culture. While they might be visually similar, they are also miles apart. Honestly, there's only one thing that you need to worry about, and that's the quality, make a well designed item, and something that reads well with the community.

    Keep in mind, we have two different lockbox couriers, three different smeevils, and countless greevils. If there's another serpent dragon, if it's well made, I wouldn't even care.

    And here's the kicker. You can make a similar arguement with Vidotto's Prismatic Drake, and Wyrmeleon. Similar anatomy, similar animations, yet both are accepted into the game.

    #YOLO
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    haha, thanks Andrew. I'll post a newer version of it. I'm going to finish the hair, and then the dragon. Since I work all day, and dota item at night.. there gonna be some long nights ahead!

    Heres some wip shots. I took what spudnik said into consideration about the presentation. I was planning to present this dragon courier as an 'Ancient' dragon. So, I've introduced a large beard and whiskers. Thoughts?

    Thanks guys.

    VrlD91O.jpg

    teUOjaI.jpg
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    Put all that on hold for this, Enchantress hair in and ornate updo. The symbol in the hair pin says horse, for 'Year of the Horse' Event.

    Thoughts?

    7gFFh7K.jpg
  • Spudnik
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    Spudnik polycounter lvl 5
    Fantastic sculpt but I'm getting a detail overload vibe.
  • belkun
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    belkun polycounter
    Agree with Spud. The sculpt indeed looks amazing, but perhaps a bit too amazing haha. There's a lot of details going on.
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for replies, I was wondering about that myself. I think it turned out alright in game. I'm still figuring out that detail thing. Mostly I wanted it to look good for teh ole'portfolio.

    Gr8JuUw.jpg

    z4PnC56.jpg

    RPvERaL.jpg

    G1oauZn.jpg
  • pior
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    pior interpolator
    I dig that dragon WIP, and I hope you'll find time to take it completion ! Just in passing : I feel like the head was reading better in your previous version, with the lighter beard. While the fuller beard makes him more powerful, I find that it somehow makes him look like a fish at first glance. I wish it had some kind of negative space under his chin for better readability. I hope I am making sense hehe.

    About the hairstyle : I think the end result fits in quite well ! Well done.

    I do find the white rim and the under lighting from the hairstyle thumbnail to be a bit odd tho. On the one hand it does a good job at making the thumbnail stand out ... but on the other hand it looks almost broken/unintentional. I think it would be nice to have at least one beauty shot with a more traditional lighting setup, just for the sake of clearly presenting your work.

    Do you have a workshop link for it ?

    Good luck for submission !
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    Hey Pior, yeah the negatice space suggestion does make sense. it's one of the things I was iffy on. I was having trouble making it as large as it is, without crashing. Thought it might be okay, but do think it needs some space to be on it's own. Making it a different colour might help with readablity, but space will for sure.

    On the hair, I used the cgfx shader for dota in maya. It's got all the maps plugged in there, and while it looks odd I think it's the best solution for promo images because I can't find any other set up in maya that looks decent. A friend suggested Xoulio in MAX, maybe I'll give that a go.

    A link is here, support appreciated! (I touched up the promo images a bit)
    Any suggestions to shader set ups in maya would be super appreciated. It's such a shame that valve doesn't have a good solution for artists there, I'd like to hear what other people use/do.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=218154270
  • Vextrakt
    You can also use Marmoset Toolbag for renders, but Xoliul will give you better results as well.
  • Sukotto
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    Sukotto sublime tool
    I think Pior meant the lightning needs work, the shader looks fine. Changing the lightning to a traditional 3 light setup would make it look a lot better (IMO). You have the light angled up from below the face, giving it a creepy look which I don't think you were going for. Reminds me of this
    Scary-face-Saket.jpg
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    lol, thanks for that giant ass picture Sukotto. I know what he meant, the lighting is built into the shader. If you check it out, you'll see. Maya lights don't effect the character with the shader applied.

    There are other places for lights, but I'm not sure how to use them in the shader. I'll have to research it more.
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    figured it out, you just put the name in the slot. Neat! I'll post some images with updated lighting here soon.
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    11tiHXZ.jpg

    Think this is a step in the right direction.
  • vlad_the_implyer
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    vlad_the_implyer polycounter lvl 4
    Looks like your normals were inverted on the green channel, am i right?
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    nawe, I just didn't have a light designated in the shader so it used the default settings which were a bit too strong without a light. I just thought the shader came illuminated since it looked like it was with all the fancy rim light stuff built in. Iono, fixed it now. Should be painless next time around.

    Wanted to bump and say booyea, broke 300 votes. (Milestone) Thanks for Support.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=218154270
  • bounchfx
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    bounchfx polycounter lvl 10
    Nice work Noth! I was going to say the same thing Vlad did - the way it was lit before totally looks like something that would usually happen with inverted green channels. That's great that you were able to solve it and find the real issue though. You got my vote.

    I also am a fan of the PL lance you did, and I'm looking forward to seeing the dragon textured, the sculpt looks great.
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks man, yeah your guys work is rockin the workshop right now! Congrats on that, nice stuff there. Can sure cover a lot of ground with teams like that, it's pretty cool.

    The DOTA Shader in Maya is a little unintuitive, didn't realize you had to actually paste the name of the light into the slot. Derp. I think max's has a drop down or something a little more helpful.

    The dragon as a courier will be a bit late, but I might finish him anyways. thanks. Might finish my DK set first.
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