Hopeless/loss
polycounter lvl 9
Since joining Polycount I have and like many others have viewed and observed new, exciting 3d work.
At the beginning I took this as merely inspiration to get me fired up to get my own work done.
Like many others I am trying to get into the game industry or any industry that would require the skills I possess.
After over a year of working on my portfolio I have started to think whilst looking at other artists work that the bottom line is I have no chance in getting that job.
Its so hard to feel confident when you look at as many portfolios as I do.
I feel like this little plankton among blue whales.
You also now have a wave of new artists that will have only have worked in ZBrush under an instructor for just a few weeks for the first time and BANG get top row just like that.
Anything from looking at the Polycount recap to the ZBrush Top Row and the CGHub editor picks have now become reminders that I either have to work so much harder or give up.
Maybe I should just buck up and stop being a whinny bitch.
At the beginning I took this as merely inspiration to get me fired up to get my own work done.
Like many others I am trying to get into the game industry or any industry that would require the skills I possess.
After over a year of working on my portfolio I have started to think whilst looking at other artists work that the bottom line is I have no chance in getting that job.
Its so hard to feel confident when you look at as many portfolios as I do.
I feel like this little plankton among blue whales.
You also now have a wave of new artists that will have only have worked in ZBrush under an instructor for just a few weeks for the first time and BANG get top row just like that.
Anything from looking at the Polycount recap to the ZBrush Top Row and the CGHub editor picks have now become reminders that I either have to work so much harder or give up.
Maybe I should just buck up and stop being a whinny bitch.
Replies
I also might be wrong here, and anybody feel free to correct me if I am, but you don't have to be top-row quality to find a job. That might be something like waiting to break the world record for the 1/4 mile before you enter your first foot race (weird/bad analogy I know, but it makes something of a point).
My advice would be to ease up on yourself. Be okay with being okay. Pump out as much okay work as you can. Learn to love the act of learning. Practice the act of practicing.. By the time you have these skills down (the ability to learn, the drive to practice, and the desire to create), you're in the clear. You'll be moving forward so fast that a job is a foregone conclusion, rather than a dream.
Perhaps you are not good enough, perhaps you are, perhaps you may even realize the industry isn't for you.
most people make the mistake of assuming an artist was always good, most are just good at hiding their failures, while few publicly celebrate them, but the failures are good.
you could compare the models you made this month with the models you made several months before, if you don't see progress then you are definitely doing something wrong, but most likely you should be seeing progress, then you can think well I have progressed this much in several months, where will I be next year? and the year after that?.
I have always thought being a great artist, especially a digital artist is a marathon not a sprint.
It seems like you've reached the point of realizing your work needs to improve; a lot of beginners don't realize how much they need to improve, because they can't look at their work objectively. It's good that you can see your work objectively, but be careful not to be too negative about it. It's easy to overdo that, too. Hopelessness isn't a good thing.
Anyway, keep working and keep getting better. You'll get there, if you care to. It just takes a large amount of time and effort.
Really good advice.
I don't think I will stop learning and making new work due to looking at so many portfolios. Maybe I should stop, like I originally posted I don't see it as influences anymore but more like constant reminders.
I have a feeling you are right about not having to be top row quality to find a job.
I would also advise that this attitude is dismissive of the artists who do this. You know who picks up zbrush and gets top row after 2 weeks? Artists who have been working for years and years in other types of art, 2d or sculpture art or something else. They are not creating that ability in 2 weeks, they are transferring it. To say that they spent 2 weeks with zbrush and are top-row quality artists is like complaining (another horrible analogy, sorry) that someone plays the organ well even though they've only been at it a little while, and ignoring that they'd been playing the piano for a decade or more.
I have been doing this and with every piece I do I see a progression. I would be worried if my new work was just like my graduate work.
I absolutely hate all the work I did a year ago or even 6 months ago, I guess this a good thing.
Yeah I know, a little ignorant (?) of me I suppose.
Keep pushing, keep improving!!! and dont be afraid to fail and learn from your mistakes
Can you show me that person please as it is quite interesting? I have never seen people who started something and succeeded so good in short amount of time. I mean maybe the person has been drawing whole his life and he knows anatomy pretty well and then he just learn zbrush in few weeks which is possible and use all his traditional knowledge in zbrush and produce something awesome. Zbrush is just a tool and knowing it wont get you good at character sculpting if you do not know anatomy well.
"After over a year of working on my portfolio I have started to think whilst looking at other artists work that the bottom line is I have no chance in getting that job."
I am doing art for about 5 years and I got my first real job only year ago. So maybe you should practice a little bit more?
Going to be a lot harder to practice and produce portfolio work the closer we get to Christmas with my day job. Not afraid to loose a few hours sleep or sleep on the bus just so I get a bit more work done.
Here is the artist I was talking about http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?181284-Sketchshido-s-concept-models&p=1048459&viewfull=1#post1048459 and you were right the artist has a background in conceptual design.
Maybe I was a bit rash with this argument
I always think I could work harder, but I means there's been times I've been working on 3d as soon as I wake up over my cereal.
But he also says that it took him 14 weeks, which is 3 or 4 months, not 2 weeks. At least I dont see the two week figure anywhere.
Super amazing stuff he's doing too.
There are a lot of guys that are really good but get turned down after the interview if they have some kind of "Rock-star Attitude". It's always a team-effort.
But yeah, we all have this feeling the only thing we can really do, is to analyse our work, compare it to others and make a plan how to get better and execute it.
Exactly this, I've seen some amazing stuff over there and just because it doesn't have a big company logo there's no Award, I've also seen it the other way round terrible work but because of the logo the guy got a gold award, its ridiculous.
Makes ya think this site really isn't about digital art at all haha, just makes it suck for the people that are trying to get noticed (which do amazing work) and still get pushed to the side.
When you`re an artist you`re always learning , the more experience you gain the more you`ll realize you still have A LOT more to learn.
Getting awards is a good pad on the back but won`t take that feeling of not being good enough away. And if it does then you`re doing something wrong.
In the end just learn to love what you`re doing, make art because you want to make art.
Fail and fail OFTEN (yes, even on purpose).
Don't live with expectations.
Aim to illustrate, it's easier to succeed and fail all at once.
Be humble of yourself, and your work. Not hasty.
Don't look at others artwork while creating your own.
Create sketches (2d, 3d) or build things in timed sessions.
Sleep, and sleep well!
Oh yeah, one last really good one...
Don't think, just do it.
Consider it done. ha.
This is spot on, we had a similar guy at our old work who never touched Zbrush, a little while later he was modeling some crazy gorilla bust and people were blown away by how fast he'd picked it up - of course he did have like 10 years of conceptual and illustration design practice, so there was that
You say you've been working on this for over a year and feel unmotivated by the competition. I've been limping myself through this many years more (although not switching careers as of yet). No matter how many unfinished models, concepts, sculpts there are and has been, the pure progression comes in how much you can put a distance between your art and yourself.
There is a misconception of a mental state an artist should have sometimes; that you should feel that your art is always bad or that you should put a "hate" stamp on how you look at your art. I can't really see how this would in any way benefit the progress you are looking for. The idea is to be objective and honest to yourself. Meaning: if you think you need to work on something, but skip it because it's difficult, takes time away from other cool stuff or just makes the progress slower while you're learning...then you are not being honest.
I know it's difficult to think this way when you are on a job hunt, but you have to try and emulate that distance in yourself. When you get a job, you can't be emotionally attached to the things you create all the time, because it's a long distance run, not a short sprint.
And the things you create don't necessarily mean you finish them; it could be your work halfway then gets scrapped or completely changed with someone else's vision
I'll just clarify I have been doing 3d since 2009 when I started University. I graduated in 2012 and since then been working on a new portfolio.
Saying unmotivated makes me sound lazy, I'm motivated but discouraged by the competition is a better way putting it.
I suck dog balls at design, I know it. Take a look at some top modellers and folks in the industry. Certainly there is nothing wrong with picking a bad ass concept from a bad ass concept artist and doing it.
If you want to be a modeller and choose some concept that you designed and the design sucks--then your modelling skills are not going to help that. I would even go as far to say that in most companies and in most cases the people who are making the concepts are not the modellers.
Also, read vertex. And the rest of the internet. There is enough info out there for some asshole who has never even opened a 3d app, WITH HARD WORK and ATTENTION TO DETAIL, to be sitting right next to any of these great artists that call polycount their home.
Zbrush top row???
Polycount DOTA 2 workshop thread is where it's at, man! :thumbup:
Resources, tips, peer networking, peer feedback/ support, possible $ rewards for your work....
Even if fantasy themed modelling is not your thing, I think you'll pick up lots of positives from this thread.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100016
Kinda gotta disagree with this, looking at others artwork always helps to bring yourself to a better level. The only way I've improved this year is by constantly looking at better artists work and pushing myself in everyway to get there.
Just keep at it dude and be inspired
Its hard to say, if I'm off from work I'll be on the computer doing portfolio for about 10 hours of the day. If i'm at work shift dependent it could be anything from an hour to 6.
The way I see it if I'm up to my desk I'm working.
I know I said consider it done to not looking at artwork but I agree I must not look at it as inspiration and only that.
As for everything else, I think we all understand the feeling of hopelessness, or maybe frustration. For people coming up, like many of us are, it can be compounded by the real world, expectations from family and significant others who are impatient to see forward movement, or a personal feeling of having a stalled life until you get that first job and can start what you consider your "real career", and also a fear that it might never happen.
For a long time my wife, then girlfriend, would see me practicing on the computer for 8-10 hours, 7 days a week, and she was impatient to see forward progress in the form of a job or some well paying contract work, and she would call it "playing on the computer." It was frustrating for both of us.
But eventually that "playing" worked itself out (thankfully in time for our first child), in the form of contracts and money. It means my wife takes what I do seriously now, and I have fewer "panic" moments, but they still come. I didn't do anything special to get there except practice and try my best, I think life tends to resolve itself if you put in the effort.
There is a thread that I can't find right now about all this. I'm on mobile or I'd search for it. I believe it was written by almighty_gir, about sticking to it despite everything else, feeling the doubt and getting it done anyways. It's an insightful read by gir, and a lot of other successful artists chime in as well.
At any rate, good luck with your work.
When I came home from university I was looking for a job just so to keep me afloat. Other than that I was on my computer every single day and ended up making a scene with a character and several vehicles. I had to keep reminding my parents that it may seem like I'm being lazy but I'm working.
As well as busting out those hours on my portfolio this year as well as working from anything to 20-40 hours a week at work I also run 45-50 miles a week and competed in a few half marathons and coming in at top (ish) positions.
As much as I go on about how hard I know it is finding a career with my skill set I cant see myself quitting. I have too much of buzz for 3d now.
This thread has helped me put things in perspective and its nice to know that others are going and have gone through the same.
Lastly, thanks ysalex and thanks to everyone else that has contributed with their input.
Perna is so absolutely right here.
A common mistake you can see in beginners portfolios is that people tend to do portfolio work on theier own designs and concepts. In general this isn't bad when you are a great designer with fresh ideas and strong skills. But speaking of the two disciplines of designing / concepting versus technical skills like modelling, baking and stuff: The second one can be aquired much faster. The first one can take years to achieve top notch quality.
So basicly I often see beginners to do theier own, often times weak designs. And it comes as no surprise that the final result might be technically ok but from aesthetic standpoint they are much more likely to fail.
A bad design will never be awesome no matter how well it is modelled or textured, unless you adress the design flaws in some way.
So my advise would be to not bother with creating your own designs and thus limiting the quality of your final results. Instead take concepts that really work well, that are detailed and polished and try our best to capture the essence of those pieces. In doing that you will step by step understand what made the concept so awesome and where are design flaws located. You will also have to solve design-problems on our own because in most cases a concept isn't covering all aspects of a 3d model or it needs some changes to work really well in 3D.
I think with this approach results will be better and you'll gain design experience gradually.
Depending on the company you work for, it will be rather unlikely that as a junior artist you are asked to first push out an awesome design and creating the asset from start to finish. Most likely there will be other people around with more experience that will cover the first step.
The key is to develop the skills to judge your own work and the work of others. Why is this assets great and works so well. Why is my asset failing to do the same. I've seen people to aquire this ability faster than others, some don't seem to aquire it at all, but in any case I think every succesfull artist needs to aquire this so vertyin degree. And it can only come with practice.
I really want to go out from this country.
What helped me was having a very distinct purpose to each piece I was creating. I'd look at an artist I admire, and say, "What can I do on this project that will help me close that gap?" Whether it be modeling, texturing, whatever. Honestly, this article was kind of my jumping off point to get myself out of that hole of despair, and those feelings of "I'll never be as good as this guy or that guy."
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/analytical_thinking.htm
I read this article when I feel like I'm losing motivation, or I see a piece someone has made that's just miles away from where I am currently. If you really want it, you'll put in the work. Like I said, my portfolio isn't anything remarkable, but I'm damn proud of the progress I've made, and you should be too, no matter how incremental it may seem. I feel for you, as this is a mindset I really struggled with, and honestly continue to struggle with from time to time. You just have to use it as motivation, don't let it turn negative. Just my two cents. Best of luck.
I'm pretty sure I made this exact thread two years ago. Telling people you're "working on your portfolio" and they don't understand why it's not finished yet. Does it suck? Sure does.
Just keep on moving a little closer each day then when you finally make a living off it it will be all the sweeter.
One of the biggest things that helped me when I was in this position was taking an online course. Something with an instructor that you admire that interaction and you can really pick his brain with. I really can't recommend something like this enough.
http://workshops.cgsociety.org/courseinfo.php?id=422
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Just wanted to say that, we are pretty fortunate living in this day and age where as long as you got free space and the required software you are basically limitless in what you can do. If you ever get stuck or become unable to solve a problem you have the entire resource of the internet backing you up. The only thing limiting yourself right now is the fact that you want to become great overnight, think of the journey as the reward not the end result. If you do that you will enjoy every day you are learning something new or mastering a new skill. Do this because you want to do it, not because you want others to think you are great. Because the critical acclaim is just a bonus in the end. Your skill is your reward.
Just imagine one houndred or two houndred years ago if you wanted to create something you would have to buy the art supplies for every piece you wanted to make. In comparison with that you are now literally limitless. So maybe that is whats stopping you.
In any case just keep doing it! create something everyday, it doesnt matter if it gets front row or not as long as you develop as an artist.
Found it, read it, cried and thought how I am in the same position.
New portfolio piece stays in the render folder for...2 months and still not on the site
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1660388&postcount=1
Man was that a good read.
Thank you so much for this, I thought I'm the only one stuck in this vortex of shit.
I actually broke out in tears because I didn't even place in the top 3 of a competition I thought I had aced (not on Polycount
I didn't let that stop me.
I have a well-paying job at a big studio.
Thank you for linking that post.
I'm in the same position. I have little to no background in arts or design. But I do want to work in videogame industry. I got a bit of 3d modeling from Uni. Then I started teaching myself and learning online. For 2yrs all I did was lowpoly modeling. And very recently I just started using Zbrush. I also started texturing my works. So, technically, I just start finishing my work. They are not great, obviously. I suppose they are what indie games could use, or smartphone games of sort. But to work for game companies, I will need to get better. Way way better. I so want to create AAA game-quality characters, but, it's not happening yet.
Luckily I'm not in financial problem. I do keep my part-time job to keep myself busy and motivated though.
I put a goal for myself today, after reading all these. My aim was to completely renovate my 3 year old portfolio with six different 3D characters, all rendered real time and which I could present to people without doubting that I gave it my best.
I put the goal of achieving that before Christmas and using that portfolio for looking for and finding the biggest-hardest freelancer gig I can find.
And after achieving that ? I will move to a flat, start living by meyself and start working for the indie RTS Ialways dreamed of... and when I finished the demo... going to Kickstarter with it....
Sorry I just went with flow I guess but putting broken-down goals for yourself really pays itself off later. I really encourage you uys/girls to do it too.
Wait Actually Hazardous had a read about that in his blog.
Here ı found it
Goodluck and Godspeed people !
http://hyperdivine.blogspot.com/2013/05/creative-near-sightedness-do-you-have-it.html
I can relate to a lot of the stories here, and along with these motivating posts and that soul shattering story from Almighty I'm finally waking up from a 2 year slur of not doing what I wanted.
Cheers folks, the hole's a lot less deep from this end now
Damn. Right in the feels. Thank you for this.
Same here.
This post made me get up and actually do something today.
Focus, focus, focus.