TB2 beta thread

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Pre-order discount!

tb2-banner.jpg



header002.jpg

The beta will continue as a private beta until launch, at which point we will have a trial version available for everyone to try. Due to the positive reception we've gotten so far and the great feedback from our private testers we've decide to skip the public beta and go straight to release.

Anyone who has contacted me recently about getting in the beta, sorry, we're not going to add anyone else due to the official release coming up shortly.

Whats new in Toolbag 2?

This thread is open to everyone however, not only the private beta testers. If you guys have questions or comments about TB2, I will do my best to try and answer them.

You can also contact us at support@marmoset.co for any issues that you are not comfortable with or able to share publicly.

PS: If I (or anyone from Marmoset) contacted you about the private beta and you have not received a tester agreement, please get in touch either via PM or email at earthqke@marmoset.co.

We've noticed that people have been shooping in the TB2 logo to screenshots, so we figured we'd make it easy for you guys:

Zip file with alpha'd PNGs for TB2 logo

UPDATE: NEW BUILD Toolbag 2.0 b2 is out!

If you’re in the beta program you should get an email notification about the new build with download links. If you’ve got a build already, launch it and you should get a prompt to update (if you do not get a prompt, check your firewall/anti-virus settings and make sure internet access is granted for toolbag.exe, or follow the link in the email to the manual update download).

We’ve changed/added a bunch of stuff, including a revamped skin shader, tweaks to the UI and general usability, re-organized the material editor for improved flexibility, metalness reflectivity mode, object visibility, ao/cavity map support, detail normal map support, and much more. Check the full list of changes here:

Toolbag 2 beta 2 changelog

Some notes:
  • The material system re-order will break existing scene files. The scenes will still open, but you may need to set up your materials again (the materials should still be assigned to the appropriate mesh chunks.
  • We still have some general scale issues, we have ideas that we’re working on to deal with it, however, please bear with us for the moment. You may notice that some of the settings in the skin shader are very scale-dependent. If the skin shader looks borked, check your mesh scale. A quick way to check mesh scale is to move your mesh around in the viewport and then check the numbers in the transform tab of the object properties - if the numbers say something like 1243 units, try scaling your mesh down in your 3d app and re-importing it.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE: Private beta build 3.. ERR 4 is out!

If you've got a build, load it up and you should get a notice to update.

This build comes wit the usual spattering of new features and bug fixes, including UNDO, some tweaks to the movement/rotation widget, anisotropic specular shader(make sure to set both reflectivity and gloss to aniso to use) microfiber shader (lambert + fuzz yay!), focus tracking to keep your model in focus while adjust the camera, properly synced normal maps from 3ds max and a variety of other things.

Minor update 4:

B4 is out with a few fixes and new features. Ansio now actually works (yay!), the skin shader bug that was found has been fixed, selection of focus point with MMB (when using DOF, this rules, try it!), some new key combos for navigation on laptops w/o MMB (alt+shift for pan, ctrl+shift for focus point), and some updates to preferences and visibility stuff.


The full changelog can be found here:

Toolbag beta build 3 changelog

Thank you guys so much for the feedback you’ve given so far, and as always, let us know what you think!

Replies

  • Stromberg90
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    Nice, I was going to ask about posting images made with it publicly, but that seems to be no problem in the light of this thread.
    So excited, cant wait to get the download link :)
  • EarthQuake
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    Nice, I was going to ask about posting images made with it publicly, but that seems to be no problem in the light of this thread.
    So excited, cant wait to get the download link :)

    Yep, no restrictions on showing images!
  • BARDLER
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    Ahhhh cant wait to see some artwork from it.
    I would love to be able to put my car I am making in there, hint hint wink wink :p
  • Defaultsound
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    Not quite a problem at the moment, but once it is complete will it be a free update to all Toolbag users? or be a paid upgrade? or be a separate software all together?
  • Luke_Starkie
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    Pretty sure on the facebook page they said its going to be a paid upgrade.
  • EarthQuake
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    Not quite a problem at the moment, but once it is complete will it be a free update to all Toolbag users? or be a paid upgrade? or be a separate software all together?

    Toolbag 2 will not be a free upgrade for Toolbag 1 users. Sorry, I can't give any details on pricing or discounts for existing users yet.
  • Millenia
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    Sweet! Gonna pick it up once it goes public.
  • Arqus
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    Can't wait to put it through its paces on OSX!
  • osman
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    Hey EQ, not sure how I missed this thread, I sent my initial feedback to the wrong e-mail.

    Anyways, I played around with it for a couple of minutes, will give it a real go this weekend. So far these are things I noticed, mostly small issues, but perhaps useful to know anyways :)
    • 'F' for focus, to place the mesh/selected mesh in the center of the screen.
    • After clicking 'Hide UI' I had no idea how to bring it back. Perhaps there should be a clearer way of bringing it back. Perhaps after hiding it, show a little message saying "Press CTRL-U to bring back the UI" and that message slowly fades out.
    • Have an option to show the folder after creating a turntable animation. And the default folder location is not saved after quitting toolbag.
    • When the user tries to quit the program, prompt a dialogue to save the scene to prevent work loss.
    • Remember the size of the window after re-starting the toolbag.
  • EarthQuake
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    osman wrote: »
    Hey EQ, not sure how I missed this thread, I sent my initial feedback to the wrong e-mail.

    Anyways, I played around with it for a couple of minutes, will give it a real go this weekend. So far these are things I noticed, mostly small issues, but perhaps useful to know anyways :)
    • 'F' for focus, to place the mesh/selected mesh in the center of the screen.
    • After clicking 'Hide UI' I had no idea how to bring it back. Perhaps there should be a clearer way of bringing it back. Perhaps after hiding it, show a little message saying "Press CTRL-U to bring back the UI" and that message slowly fades out.
    • Have an option to show the folder after creating a turntable animation. And the default folder location is not saved after quitting toolbag.
    • When the user tries to quit the program, prompt a dialogue to save the scene to prevent work loss.
    • Remember the size of the window after re-starting the toolbag.

    Awesome thanks! No issue is too small to be help, so please feel free to let us know even the most minor things you find.

    Space hides and shows the UI, like TB1, but I can see how that would be really confusing for people haven't used TB1, seeing as the menu item to show it disapears. Good catch!
  • mantragora
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    10 posts and only one image. Come on guys, show some stuff!
  • MeshModeler
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    is there anyway to get into the private beta at this point? im pretty interested..
  • Stromberg90
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    Have been testing out some, really liking the new features and how it works :)
    Have a few bug reports, suggestions and some cheesy images :P

    Bug: One pixel line(see image)
    TxG7QZV.jpg
    Bug: Transform gizmo disappears(see image)
    nfFWrXr.png
    Bug: Black cubes when using local reflection.(see image)
    e7lgeiL.jpg
    Bug: Shaders to do not always appear before clicked on.

    Suggestions:
    Would be nice with a autofocus feature.
    Would be nice to could right click in the outliner to create new objects.
    Make the light color more apparent, I thought it was a checkbox.
    Ability to import own background image.
    Would be nice to be able to lock the camera.
    Would be nice with a none option for sky, even though brightness can be set to 0.0

    Images:

    Highpoly viewed on toolbag2 with skin shader and dynamic lights.
    crFKQY0.jpg
    Golden gun, used the gold preset inside toolbag2, was awesome :D
    qj47P08.jpg
  • ZacD
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    I cannot wait to see some more projects using this, and to get my hands on it! Looking awesome already.
  • almighty_gir
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  • EarthQuake
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    Strom: Sweet! Whats the tricount on your HP character? I've gotten 5 million tris mesh to load but haven't tried higher than that.
  • ZacD
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    Is there any system requirements you can list? Is it DX11 only or anything?
  • EarthQuake
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    ZacD wrote: »
    Is there any system requirements you can list? Is it DX11 only or anything?

    We don't have an official system requirements list yet. I think DX10 is a requirement, and I'm pretty sure we're going 64-bit only. Windows and OSX (10.6.8 or later).

    Other than that, you really just want a big beefy video card for best performance, its basically a GPU based renderer so it really stresses the video card (cpu etc is not important). I've ran it on some lowly laptops with integrated Intel GPUs, and it runs, but not great with all the fancy stuff ticked on.
  • ZacD
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    Also I assume if we bought Toolbag 1 right now we'd at least get the purchase price off Toolbag 2?
  • EarthQuake
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    ZacD wrote: »
    Also I assume if we bought Toolbag 1 right now we'd at least get the purchase price off Toolbag 2?

    Sorry, pricing has not been finalized yet, I probably won't be able to comment on pricing until we're out of beta and the official 2.0 release is announced.
  • almighty_gir
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    what happened to the anisotropic shaders (for hair), and translucency? i've only got cutout and dithered alpha... can't get hair to look too hot at the moment =/

    also a two sided toggler?
  • stefanobernardi
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    Hi all, I tested it out quickly with a model I did a few years ago; I'm using a quite old MacBookPro with these specs:

    Intel Core 2 Duo 2,66 GHz
    8 GB RAM
    NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT

    Unfortunately, the performance is really choppy on my hardware, and it's barely usable with advanced features turned on, like depth of field.

    Regarding interface, I found very useful the hotkeys used in Marmoset 1, especially the SHIFT key to rotate the environment, the TAB to switch between tabs and the SPACEBAR to toggle the UI; would be great to have these hotkeys, or at least the opportunity to map them.

    Also, would be great to have the opportunity to create a transparent ground with only the shadow of the model on it, pretty like the ground works in Zbrush. Or, even better, a background shader, assignable to objects, transparent but with opaque shadows; such feature would create limitless opportunities for rendering and compositing.

    I hope that someone else has the opportunity to try this beta with a more powerful Mac, as mine is way too old; nonetheless, I'm really excited to have Marmoset running on OSX!

    marmoset_test1_01b.jpg


    marmoset_test1_02b.jpg


    marmoset_test1_03.jpg
  • Stromberg90
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    almighty_gir:
    I could get hair to look pretty sweet, with the dithered alpha.
    heRRGJx.jpg
    All characters I show are made by SveinY

    EarthQuake: That's pretty sweet, considering it's a real time render.
    The character where "only" around 400.000 tri's, the vehicle though is on 2.3 million triangles and it loaded really fast.
  • seth.
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    GiR wrote:
    also a two sided toggler?

    I second this, i cant find it anywhere.

    BUG: light widget disapears when directly between the model and the camera

    Sugestions: can we have the spotlight widget with the cone back, I'm not seeing a correspondence between the current widget and the light direction.

    is it worth the functionality of bringing the maps across when you duplicate a material?
  • Lonewolf
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    it doesnt support any toolbag 1 files? (materials/scenes)

    :(
  • almighty_gir
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    here we go, couple of different pieces showing different rendering styles -

    AxhN2Pj.jpg
    l6KTZlM.jpg

    first impressions:
    - feels like a hybrid rendering system? some things feel like the old way of working (diffuse + spec = fudged values), other things feel physically based. kinda feel like if you're including different "specular types" like mirror/blinn-phong, you should maybe leave blinn-phong as the old style and move to the new workflow with a new specular type. reflectance colour in rgb, and reflectance value in alpha.

    - previously there was order independent transparency advertised, i'm assuming this is something to be updated later as the current alpha settings feel extremely lacking. especially the lack of soft alpha... means things like eyeballs just can't be done "right" at the moment.

    - would love to be able to duplicate meshes or groups in the selection menu on the left. it kinda feels redundant having the list there without being able to do anything with it when you can just drag and drop stuff onto objects in the viewport.

    - why isn't there an option to have spec alpha as gloss yet? this has been asked for in toolbag 1 for so long!

    - not sure if it's just a setting i've overlooked, but the backgrounds are always super blurry to me/showing the lowest mipmap? on the model reflections are fine, just not in the background.

    - emission is extremely lacking right now. GIMME DAT BLOOM!

    - new skin shader is friggin awesome.

    - new AO settings are literally sex.

    - tesselation is a LOT smoother than it used to be, although with smoothing set to full, and tesselation above 64, i've found you get artifacts in the reflections.

    I definitely need to make something bespoke to truly test the capabilities, but those are just my first impressions.

    oh and specs...
    i7 3930k @ 3.4Ghz
    32Gb RAM @ 1600Mhz
    Asus GTX 670 2Gb
  • EarthQuake
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    what happened to the anisotropic shaders (for hair), and translucency? i've only got cutout and dithered alpha... can't get hair to look too hot at the moment =/

    also a two sided toggler?

    Aniso and more blending modes are not in yet but are planned, we've been focusing on the big rendering features so unfortunately there are still a few things that were in TB1 that are still missing in TB2.

    Dithered transparency is the order independent transparency. It may not look awesome in the viewport, because it requires dithering and lots of sampling to work, but when you save out an image it should work well. For things like hair where its mostly solid with fuzzy edges, dithered transparency should be perfect. For things like gloss eye shells and glass, the refractive shader is probably what you will want but is unfortunately not in yet.

    Sorry, There is no way to do two sided mats yet, you can work around it by duplicating and flipping the faces for now.
  • EarthQuake
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    Hi all, I tested it out quickly with a model I did a few years ago; I'm using a quite old MacBookPro with these specs:

    Intel Core 2 Duo 2,66 GHz
    8 GB RAM
    NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT

    Unfortunately, the performance is really choppy on my hardware, and it's barely usable with advanced features turned on, like depth of field.

    Regarding interface, I found very useful the hotkeys used in Marmoset 1, especially the SHIFT key to rotate the environment, the TAB to switch between tabs and the SPACEBAR to toggle the UI; would be great to have these hotkeys, or at least the opportunity to map them.

    Also, would be great to have the opportunity to create a transparent ground with only the shadow of the model on it, pretty like the ground works in Zbrush. Or, even better, a background shader, assignable to objects, transparent but with opaque shadows; such feature would create limitless opportunities for rendering and compositing.

    I hope that someone else has the opportunity to try this beta with a more powerful Mac, as mine is way too old; nonetheless, I'm really excited to have Marmoset running on OSX!

    marmoset_test1_01b.jpg


    marmoset_test1_02b.jpg


    marmoset_test1_03.jpg

    Thanks for the feedback!

    A few things, space does still toggle the UI. CTRL now rotates the sky (shift is used to select multiple objects in the viewport).

    Performance is heavily tied to GPU, so having an older GPU is going to limit you performance wise, especially with the DOF and screen space reflection effects. DOF performance is related to your max bokeh size setting, basically the narrower the DOF, the worse performance gets.

    A couple things you can do for performance:
    Set up a camera with DOF on, and then make another "working" camera with DOF off
    Set the resolution setting in the render tab to half - this will look worse but should significantly improve performance.
  • Stromberg90
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    Also a tip for those who have not figured it out, I just did by accident.
    You can open any image as a light environment and then click on the thumbnail to place dynamic lights, that will rotate with the environment, much better than TB1 :)
  • seth.
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    first night playing with it and so far its really nice, being able to add a mirror shader over an eyeball to compliment the spec is nice. Bit of a pain that its not supporting gloss in the spec alpha yet, hopefully that will be back in there.

    Skin shader is awesome, it will need some playing with to get the most out of it but it made the crappy skin textures below look passable really quickly. top stuff....it being default on 100% peach fuzz is a bit of a paim, but a minor niggle.

    I think that I will put the olga that I am working on through M2 because it does feel like it needs a different set of maps to M1

    I miss the sunlight preset from M1, as that was the default light that I used for my main texturing, I think a good plain lighting option would be nice as all the current presets have quite a bit of character....does that make sense?

    finally bugs:

    my materials wont save maps, and will only save slider positions on the skin shader, both when opening a scene and importing previously exported materials back into a scene.

    Turntable is clipping geo when it rotates similar to a near clip plane being set too low in maya, and when you stop it its snapping back to zero rather than staying in the position it was paused in.

    pictures!! like I say excuse the skin, its me not finishing the maps properly rather than the skin shader :)

    test001.jpg

    specs:

    i7 970 @ 3.2Ghz
    16Gb RAM @ 1600Mhz
    Palit GTX460 2Gb

    Edit* I decided to re render this asset & weeks after this post...TB2 is awesome :)

    tb2%20final.jpg
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