I don't see anyone working in the game industry (including myself) with a bright future. Heed my warning, it's all going down hill
Is this based on any solid facts or just a gut reaction? This fear mongering is hurtful to people new to the industry - it leads to sticking with abusive studios and jumping at the first job offer they can get.
Is this based on any solid facts or just a gut reaction? This fear mongering is hurtful to people new to the industry - it leads to sticking with abusive studios and jumping at the first job offer they can get.
All you have to do is look at the sells report from the last 2 years to now. Month after months sales are in a decline. More studios then ever are either closing down or laying off huge amounts of people. Games are needing a very unrealistic number of sales just to break even. Look at Tomb Raider and Bioshock. Sold 2 million + copies and is still considered a financial failures, because the development cost are way to high. The game industry as it currently stands, is unsustainable as a business that makes money.
All you have to do is look at the sells report from the last 2 years to now. Month after months sales are in a decline. More studios then ever are either closing down or laying off huge amounts of people. Games are needing a very unrealistic number of sales just to break even. Look at Tomb Raider and Bioshock. Sold 2 million + copies and is still considered a financial failures, because the development cost are way to high. The game industry as it currently stands, is unsustainable as a business that makes money.
1)Tomb Raider & Bioshock were the victims of Hollywood accounting
2)most Digital sales aren't reported or tracked.
Yes, if you work at a retail video game store, be worried.
afaik, everywhere else is better off than Austin as far as layoffs have been so if I'm not worried in Austin you guys shouldn't sweat it.
1)Tomb Raider & Bioshock were the victims of Hollywood accounting
2)most Digital sales aren't reported or tracked.
Yes, if you work at a retail video game store, be worried.
afaik, everywhere else is better off than Austin as far as layoffs have been so if I'm not worried in Austin you guys shouldn't sweat it.
Factor in reason 2 and you might see an entirely different outlook for the industry. Yes, retail sales are down. But what about overall sales numbers?
And, no, Zynga did not have a healthy outlook at all. They are a flash in the pan, that didn't invest well, grew too big, and thought that the money tree would continue to produce if the failed to water it properly. They are a victim on their own hubris and it sucks that the artists have to get hurt in all of this.
ANYWAY, this is deraling the thread. Zynga people, especially if this was your first game industry job, don't let the doom & gloomers get you down because the confidence hit can affect your job search - mobile continues to grow and you've got skills that fit, go out there and kick some ass!
Regardless, people lost jobs. It's never easy and it sucks. Dwelling on the negative isn't helping anything. Many people still acquire jobs on a daily basis. There ARE good news stories out there. The industry has been growing, rapidly, and this sort of thing was bound to happen eventually as the competition has become stiff. Will it continue to grow and grow past what it is now? ... who knows. But it's not going to instantly disintegrate. Best thing you can do is try to help those affected now and spread the word of their talents. It'll get better.
Best of luck to all those affected. Many of us know the dreaded feeling.
Despite the layoff's and studios closing their doors, it's not all doom and gloom. Like someone mentioned, it's not just this industry.
I personally believe the worst of it is behind us and the economy as a whole will continue to rebound. The housing market is finally starting to pick up as well as the auto industry. It takes time...it sucks it takes this long, but we didn't get ourselves in this mess over night and we sure as hell wont get out of it over night.
All you have to do is look at the sells report from the last 2 years to now. Month after months sales are in a decline. More studios then ever are either closing down or laying off huge amounts of people. Games are needing a very unrealistic number of sales just to break even. Look at Tomb Raider and Bioshock. Sold 2 million + copies and is still considered a financial failures, because the development cost are way to high. The game industry as it currently stands, is unsustainable as a business that makes money.
I agree this seems pretty knee jerk. As Justin pointed out.. digital sales are never tracked. That is the trend of our industry. Our Industry also has a horrible tendency of reporting all the layoffs, but not of what small successful studios has spawned from that. I believe long gone are the times of many of the mid-core mid tier developers. Most of them have not updated there methodology for running business to fit industry trends/needs.
Well, it's not a surprise that things are going sour when the average CEO makes 500 times what the bottom wage earner makes and jobs are being devoured by outsourcing and automation. The people at the bottom can't afford the mass of goods we're producing. The distribution of wealth is so top-heavy, there isn't enough to go around so that consumers can support the economy like they could just after WWII. So jobs get axed, further feeding the causal root of the issue.
I don't see anyone working in the game industry (including myself) with a bright future. Heed my warning, it's all going down hill
some companies go downhill, the industry will endure. People in 50 years will still play games unless we end up in some mad max scenario Keep your skills relevant, adapt and accept that this industry is not a stable one (i.e. always have a plan B in your pocket).
I don't see anyone working in the game industry (including myself) with a bright future. Heed my warning, it's all going down hill
Take heed children, the all knowing Oracle Orgoth hath spoken! There are plenty of people making themselves a solid career in games, saying its all going to pot doesn't really help people who are trying their best and have had no luck breaking in yet. I guess a lot of people would feel that way when these occasional 'Layoff' threads pop up.
Have to agree with Nyne as well, it feels like we're through the thick of it now and things should start getting better.
I don't see anyone working in the game industry (including myself) with a bright future. Heed my warning, it's all going down hill
the funny thing about this statement is you can wait as long as you like for it to come true and you'll never have to answer for how stupid and fearmongering it really is
Their games production costs aren't that high nor that innovative.
so the people who actually do the work can get used abused and dumped while money for the board of directors goes up.
this is the way it works in the world of business, this industry as a whole I think is far from dying, its changing I must agree, it always has been changing, but there's a indie surge right now for instance.
Although that has its pitfalls I must admit, you can make a living in a variety of ways doing this, and for the few renegades that decide to go their own way, you can get rich, rather rich.
the best way to make yourself and keep yourself employable though is to consistently refine your skills to be in the top ten percent make yourself needed, not wanted.
Is this based on any solid facts or just a gut reaction? This fear mongering is hurtful to people new to the industry - it leads to sticking with abusive studios and jumping at the first job offer they can get.
it also leads to less people wanting to work in the industry, which leads to a shortage of employees, which leads to better working conditions (short term) to get more people in, then it becomes saturated, and then we're right back here.
A few years ago, a grad student lived above me and I'm pretty sure she went to Zynga after graduation. Not sure if she was laid off or even still there, but good luck to everyone that was unfortunately let go. Hope you all land a new job soon!
It was a given, Zynga payed a premium to buy certain studios, and over time, both the projects internally and bought-sourced ended.
Many employee's were being worked on fumes (EI: Not really jobs, more like "hey, can you fix this one pixel that no one will notice?", many of them also were doing almost nothing and working on personal stuff.
Zynga decided to cut them off because many people were literally twiddling their thumbs, and it's not their fault honestly, Zynga's management should have been ontop of this from the start.
This all could have been avoided if instead of 'waiting' for when the they will rehire people based upon sale numbers (EI: Data mining everything), they would do what studio like Pixar do, which is hire people (internal + contracts), have them work on a project, and before the project is over, transition them into another project smoothly and let go off the contracts as normally and keep tabs with them.
If there is no project, give them a cut pay holiday and rehire when the preparation phase is over, although this part wouldn't exist, if the workforce in the studio is divided up correctly, with the 'starters' preparing the next project before the end of the cycle.
And mind you, this wouldn't cost the studio extra, since severance packages are cut in half, and the start/stop system cost would also be taken out.
The game industry is supposed to be the 'in' crowd thing right now, especially with companies like Zynga being the fore-front of 'open' market, but it seems like they're having a hard time understanding and adapting on points like these, which places like Disney and Pixar have been able to do on movies, and lets face it, people are constantly buying/playing open market games, and not always watching movies or buying DVD's.
so from the AMA it sounds like Zynga was pretty awesome and treated it's employees better than their management (remember all the stock option shenanigans?). I went to college with a guy who was there since YoVille, 5 years is a pretty good run.
Replies
It's sad that people lost jobs but did anyone see Zynga as a company with a bright future?
I don't see anyone working in the game industry (including myself) with a bright future. Heed my warning, it's all going down hill
It isn't just this industry.
Is this based on any solid facts or just a gut reaction? This fear mongering is hurtful to people new to the industry - it leads to sticking with abusive studios and jumping at the first job offer they can get.
All you have to do is look at the sells report from the last 2 years to now. Month after months sales are in a decline. More studios then ever are either closing down or laying off huge amounts of people. Games are needing a very unrealistic number of sales just to break even. Look at Tomb Raider and Bioshock. Sold 2 million + copies and is still considered a financial failures, because the development cost are way to high. The game industry as it currently stands, is unsustainable as a business that makes money.
1)Tomb Raider & Bioshock were the victims of Hollywood accounting
2)most Digital sales aren't reported or tracked.
Yes, if you work at a retail video game store, be worried.
afaik, everywhere else is better off than Austin as far as layoffs have been so if I'm not worried in Austin you guys shouldn't sweat it.
Factor in reason 2 and you might see an entirely different outlook for the industry. Yes, retail sales are down. But what about overall sales numbers?
And, no, Zynga did not have a healthy outlook at all. They are a flash in the pan, that didn't invest well, grew too big, and thought that the money tree would continue to produce if the failed to water it properly. They are a victim on their own hubris and it sucks that the artists have to get hurt in all of this.
KI is looking for a flash animator/2d artist
as well as assorted other positions
Best of luck to all those affected. Many of us know the dreaded feeling.
I personally believe the worst of it is behind us and the economy as a whole will continue to rebound. The housing market is finally starting to pick up as well as the auto industry. It takes time...it sucks it takes this long, but we didn't get ourselves in this mess over night and we sure as hell wont get out of it over night.
Either way, good luck to all that were effected!
I agree this seems pretty knee jerk. As Justin pointed out.. digital sales are never tracked. That is the trend of our industry. Our Industry also has a horrible tendency of reporting all the layoffs, but not of what small successful studios has spawned from that. I believe long gone are the times of many of the mid-core mid tier developers. Most of them have not updated there methodology for running business to fit industry trends/needs.
some companies go downhill, the industry will endure. People in 50 years will still play games unless we end up in some mad max scenario
Take heed children, the all knowing Oracle Orgoth hath spoken! There are plenty of people making themselves a solid career in games, saying its all going to pot doesn't really help people who are trying their best and have had no luck breaking in yet. I guess a lot of people would feel that way when these occasional 'Layoff' threads pop up.
Have to agree with Nyne as well, it feels like we're through the thick of it now and things should start getting better.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/189939/Zyngas_plan_to_keep_its_remaining_executives_on_board_Splash_the_cash.php
the funny thing about this statement is you can wait as long as you like for it to come true and you'll never have to answer for how stupid and fearmongering it really is
so the people who actually do the work can get used abused and dumped while money for the board of directors goes up.
this is the way it works in the world of business, this industry as a whole I think is far from dying, its changing I must agree, it always has been changing, but there's a indie surge right now for instance.
Although that has its pitfalls I must admit, you can make a living in a variety of ways doing this, and for the few renegades that decide to go their own way, you can get rich, rather rich.
the best way to make yourself and keep yourself employable though is to consistently refine your skills to be in the top ten percent make yourself needed, not wanted.
it also leads to less people wanting to work in the industry, which leads to a shortage of employees, which leads to better working conditions (short term) to get more people in, then it becomes saturated, and then we're right back here.
industries in general go through this cycle.
Many employee's were being worked on fumes (EI: Not really jobs, more like "hey, can you fix this one pixel that no one will notice?", many of them also were doing almost nothing and working on personal stuff.
Zynga decided to cut them off because many people were literally twiddling their thumbs, and it's not their fault honestly, Zynga's management should have been ontop of this from the start.
This all could have been avoided if instead of 'waiting' for when the they will rehire people based upon sale numbers (EI: Data mining everything), they would do what studio like Pixar do, which is hire people (internal + contracts), have them work on a project, and before the project is over, transition them into another project smoothly and let go off the contracts as normally and keep tabs with them.
If there is no project, give them a cut pay holiday and rehire when the preparation phase is over, although this part wouldn't exist, if the workforce in the studio is divided up correctly, with the 'starters' preparing the next project before the end of the cycle.
And mind you, this wouldn't cost the studio extra, since severance packages are cut in half, and the start/stop system cost would also be taken out.
The game industry is supposed to be the 'in' crowd thing right now, especially with companies like Zynga being the fore-front of 'open' market, but it seems like they're having a hard time understanding and adapting on points like these, which places like Disney and Pixar have been able to do on movies, and lets face it, people are constantly buying/playing open market games, and not always watching movies or buying DVD's.
It's always the bloody management...
http://valleywag.gawker.com/fired-zynga-staff-hits-reddit-to-talk-life-before-the-511412384?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow