Yiynova MSP19U: watch out Cintiq its comming for you
polycounter lvl 12
Hello everyone I just picked up the Yiynova MSP19U and I love it, I wanted to get the word out asap, so I did a quick (fairly quick) review on youtube, though the video is not great, at times it looks like I might have had minor stroke during its recording 
But it should give you an idea about sensitivity, I tried out zbrush and photoshop CS6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyossuth0sM
If after watching your still interested then you can find very in-depth reviews here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyossuth0sM
http://frenden.tumblr.com/post/38693256477/yiynovamsp19u
One thing to note, if you are interested you will want the msp19U not the MSP19 the U model has a new digitizer that is awesome, the old one msp19 has issues with the older waltrop digitizer
Again I love this tablet, its an amazing deal. If you have any questions please let me know and I will try to answer them.
Thanks!!!
But it should give you an idea about sensitivity, I tried out zbrush and photoshop CS6https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyossuth0sM
If after watching your still interested then you can find very in-depth reviews here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyossuth0sM
http://frenden.tumblr.com/post/38693256477/yiynovamsp19u
One thing to note, if you are interested you will want the msp19U not the MSP19 the U model has a new digitizer that is awesome, the old one msp19 has issues with the older waltrop digitizer
Again I love this tablet, its an amazing deal. If you have any questions please let me know and I will try to answer them.
Thanks!!!
Replies
I will let you know if Im changing batteries every couple of days
The pen looks pretty much the same and used a triple A battery as well. I do not remember changing batteries too often.. maybe once a month or 2.
Though the rubber part of the pen is pretty thin, so when it got warm by my hand, it got kinda elastic/loose. Making it hard to hold it at times, but it wasn't horrible.
You said in your review that its more natural feeling... its not. Rather thats the springy pen tip that gives you that feel. Current and even old gen wacom's have this as well...just switch the pen nib to the one with the spring in it.
Now why would one find this bad? Because that springy nib is only useful in a few select situations, like natural ink drawing emulation. Otherwise its not good for run of the mill CG work. No matter what you will have a soft and springy stroke, not the firm ones you can get with the wacom.
For this reason alone I would never recommend yiynova. Then you have the monitors, which are cheap TFT LCDs and low PPI (pixel per inch). Seriously the screens are some one the worst LCDs one can find. Color range? Forget about it. Natural feeling surface? Forget about it again, its just a cheap slippery glass surface.
Video input method? DVI? Nope. HDMI? Nope. VGA...bleh yeah. This means visual display is even worse and not good for the eyes. So high resolution? Nope. Its low, 1440 x 900 or something like that.
Everything about this product screams cheap chinese recylced knockoff with a high price point (for what you are getting).
Also notice all the work people are showing off with the Yiynova...it all looks the SAME, and there is a reason for it. It might be decent for that type of comic ink illustration, but not for anything else.
Worse, if you work with a wacom digitizer (tablet) as well, which many artist will...you will have to completely wipe any wacom drivers off the computer.
So no none of this is competition. In fact its more of a rip off than anything else.
There are better options out there.
1. 13hd cintiq ($999) Worth the little extra you would pay over some crap yiynova.
2. Older cintiqs (range from $200-700). Can find 18 inch cintiqs and 15 inch cintiqs on ebay, extra pens are cheap and you have options including axiotron pens. The 12ux cintiq will probably be selling for cheaper now that the 13hd is nearly out.
3. Alternative brands using wacom components. For example, Lenovo has a portable thinkvision monitor coming out that is USB based, gorillia glass + IPS panel, and is touch enabled for both hands and also wacom penabled...why? beacuse it has a wacom digitizer behind it all. This means you will get somthing far superior to the yiynova and at a starting price point of ($350). There is also a wireless version which is $450. Viewsonic and other brands are starting to show signs of releasing similar product lines.
If you are serious about your art, you will be making the right kind of investments to make sure your art has the tools necessary, if not software then at least hardware.
I also must disagree with your claims regarding the display, your splitting hairs regarding low ppi, the older cintiqs are almost as low with approx. 95 ppi, and the Yiynovas approx. 89.37 ppi, the newer hd Wacom is approx. 102.46 ppi, which is better ppi than the yiynova but is that worth the additional 1400.00? For me it is not worth the extra cash and I do have 2 high definition monitors (27 inch 2560x1440), so I can easily compare the difference to the yiynova and yes it is noticeable, but not a deal breaker. You say cheap lcds, but they have a nice vibrant display, they don’t use the crappy antiglare plastic screen, which some artist will actually remove that screen to scrape off the anti-glare coating to try and improve clarity. I do think that Wacom is better display in certain conditions, I believe its an ips display, where I would say the yiynova is TN display, so the Wacom has way better viewing angles, which for me is not big deal. The choice between the plastic screen feel and the glass screen feel is a matter of preference, and cannot be used to gauge the overall quality of the product. I love the glass not slippery to me, but I also have the asus slate and I’m used to drawing on glass.
You also mention the work being produced by the yiynova… I think that will soon change I know artist who are accomplished professionals working in the industry and they love the newest yiynova (U) tablets, so you will see more work generated from artist using the yiynova as time goes on, remember yiynova newest tablet is their latest and only real competition to Wacom, so it will take time to get the word out.
As far as removing Wacom tablets, why would I want both anyway? I guess I could be ready for the sky to fall and my yiynova to burst in flames, then it would be nice to still have Wacom drivers…. But it only took about 5 minutes to remove the drivers which to me is not a big deal.
Your point about there being better options out there?
1) 13 hd cintiq, yeah maybe if you want to pay the extra cash for a much smaller display
2) Older cintiqs suffer from almost the same ppi range they have around 95 ppi and the yiynova has 89 ppi, so to say the older cintiqs are better is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Not to mention possible scratching issues with certain cintiq models produced in previous years. Oh and there’s the pen lag that has been confirmed in other reviews to be worse on the cintiq
3) Alternate brand that’s do use Wacom components? yeah I own one and I love it but that’s a very misleading statement for you to make, the alternate tech is all tablet pcs, so you normally contend with laptop like performance, and questionable DX shader support. There besides yiynova, there is no competitor that has alternate to the cintiq display that can be plugged into your beefy desktop beast. Also those other options you mention all use penabled Wacom tech which is clamped at 512 levels of sensitivity not 2048. Unless there’s some new device just being release that I am unaware of.
And finally your statement about being serious about your art, is offensive to say the least, how dare you make such statements about persons dedication based on their hardware choices. I know extremely dedicated & talented artist who barely make ends meet, and if this gives them an option they are more comfortable with and can give them access to a cintiq style tablet more power to them… I have 12 years employed gaming industry experience, to this day I consider myself still to be an artist in training. I am amazed at some of the fresh new talent that comes out , talent that has not be given the exposure or the chance to excel in a fiercely competitive market, so again a cheaper alternative that might make their lives easier is a good thing.
Im truly sorry you have such a strong opinion against yiynova… maybe its because its, as you say a cheap Chinese product, but maybe they are just the new guy trying to put a more practical price tag on the technology Wacom has monopolized on for so long.
VGA is capable of higher transfer rate than hdmi, true the screen is 1440 x 900 but the monitor is 19inch it's not really big enough or necessary to fit the display res of 1920 x 1080, but it's still bigger than 720p.
It's not full HD no, but it has an equally good and or better visual connector and is a good middle ground.
That said, I wish I could afford either of these products, Yiynova or Cintiq. I currently only own one of the new versions of the wacom bamboo and the pen is awful. I've heard the intuos pens are a lot nicer so I may give one a try.
@Snoops,
You clearly have more experience with this than me (seeing all those reviews) is the pen comfortable to hold with easy to reach but not too easy to press buttons? The biggest problem I have with this pen is that the buttons are nearly flush with the rest of the pen so I don't know I've pressed a button until Photoshop starts panning me around.
I obviously do not know the quality of the actual product. But it feels like you get what you pay for. So if you can not afford an overpriced cintiq, those should be a nice alternative imo.
A few years back I couldn't afford a wacom, but the Genius Pensketch did exactly what I wanted. "Upgrading" to the Intuos 3 I own now didn't really feel too different except for higher quality materials and a sturdier build.
Honestly I welcome other companies trying to compete with Wacom. To me Wacom is like Apple. Overpriced cool hardware.
The Linux of display tablets is already covered by the "diytiq" scene. We just need the Windows equivalent now. =]
If the pen is actually the same stuff as my old Genius Pensketch, the buttons aren't bad at all.
They might not protrude as much as the Intuos 3 pen (that what I use) but they are definitely clicky like it.
Anyway.. don't we have wireless charging technology nowadays? the issue with the battery pens would become a non issue if the pen holder was a wireless charging thingy for the pen.
All digitizers will have lag, the question is whether its noticeable or not. I have seen little to none, and many have shown the same. I dont know of any artist that wails their hands around as fast as they can for their cg art.
The pen mechanism is springy, thats the only type of "feel" you get with the yiynova pen (which is just a rebranded uc-logic pen). It will not give you perfect starting and ending points from when the pen touches and pulls off the surface. This same type of feel comes with wacoms in the form of a spring nib, but most wont use it because its not good for most work.
You can see this for example in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4rGTP4gPZ8 (at the 4:30 mark).
You are focusing on just one aspect, the ppi. I explained many bad points regarding the yiynova, combined they should make spending a little bit more for a clearly superior product worth it. Focusing only on the ppi seems silly.
As for your numbers? Where are you getting them? I can guess though... Frendens review of the yiynova right? You seem to be just repeating everything in his blog/review.
There is a pretty big difference between the yiynova's lcd and the wacom's. This isnt to say the wacom lcds are the best, but the difference between the two is night and day, even on the older models.
As an artist, the visual quality SHOULD be the deal breaker. I think you might have your priorities mixed up. If you are relying on an external monitor, then why not just get a normal tablet? The point I am trying to stress here is that theres no excuse for a shoddy LCD panel when it comes to cintiq (and cintiq like products). Yes wacom even gets criticized for their panels and most of the time they are justified. Wacom doesnt use the best, which you think they would considering the premium price point...however, if the yiynova's (rebrand) is worse than what wacom offers, then you know theres a problem.
Absolutely. Its a garbage display. Nice and vibrant? Its not about how bright you can get your primary colors, its about the color range where you can see the differences in hues and how they blend together...not which display can show the brightest red and have it drown out everything else. In truth, the yiynova lcds are not that bright.
Want to know a trick to make everything look bright and vibrant? Give it a glossy screen. Wacom tries to avoid the glossy screen because it does what? Reflect. The yiynova an be used as a mirror, wacom chooses to have anti-glare instead. Its not just the look though, its the feel. Wacom surfaces have a bit of texture to them. Why would anyone want to draw on glass with a slippery plastic nib? Its like drawing on greased up ice.
As for artist scraping off the coating...no you are just pulling that off of RayF's review and what he did to his cintiq. I think he is probably one of the only ones to have done that. It is not normal, nor common, nor desired. He wanted a certain look and made it happen, thats it.
Better in certain conditions? Such as?
To me that doesnt make any sense. A good display is a good display, there are no "conditions" which turn a good display into a bad one...but a bad one can never be a "good" one with the excuse of "conditions".
Which cintiq have you used that feels like plastic on the surface? They use textured glass, so I'm not sure where the plastic is coming into play.
I would be happy to see alternative work being produced by the yiynova but all those I have seen praising the yiynova are producing the same kind of comic illustration.
Btw, as a 3d artist ... I did buy a yiynova awhile back, and it was horrible. Every fellow artist I let try it hated it. It was sent back not long after. Its also not the latest, they just switched digitizers from waltrop to uclogic. Both are chinese (well technically Taiwanese).
Its actually common for those working on cintiqs to have a tablet nearby or also hooked up. Depending on the work being done, drawing directly on the display as opposed to the desk and looking at the assets being made is not always best. Some artist also use portable workstations...this means they take it with them to work or other locations and have to use different tablets depending on where they go. You cannot just simply pack up the yiynova and go to a clients office to do some quick illustrations for example. Being able to have both work is important to many.
1. Your response ties into where you are offended about the statement regarding being serious about your art. The little bit of extra cash shows how much you care. What you get for what, $300 more is a higher resolution screen with far higher ppi, a far superior pen, drivers and properties, you get tilt recognition, you get portability, you get display port quality, and a far higher color range...so you lose a few inches, along with far better support (unless you like shipping the yiynova back to china). You are telling me thats not worth $300-400 more? Really?
2. Other older cintiqs are still better than the yiynova, thats whats sad and you can get them for half the price of what you are paying. Scratches? The likely hood of scratching an older one is the same as the yiynova. The point here being, if being cheap is your goal then there are cheaper alternatives that are still better and stand the test of time. I have seen used cintiqs, even the 21 inchers go for as low as $700.
3. I have said nothing misleading. I am not talking about tablet pcs or even laptops with pen input...I am talking about displays with wacom components built into them. There are alternatives, and depending on who you talk to they can explain to you that their is little difference in say 512 and 2048. Why? because its software based, the hardware still gives a normalized value and few can tell the difference. What they can tell you is the change made to the wacom pen over the years gives the feeling that levels of pressure = smoother stroke when its really just an improvement on the pen itself.
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/microsoft/54144-surface-pro-uses-wacom-2.html
It wasnt intended to be offensive, but if someone takes their cg skillset seriously, and it is part of what defines them and their profession...investing in the best tools to give the best results is not insane. When you are cheap about it, you pretty much are cheap about your art. I am not talking about a thousand dollar difference here, but a mere $300-400 difference to get the bare minimum of a premium current high quality device.
I am not attacking you personally, but rather pointing out that the yiynova isnt the competition you make it out to be.
There are so many reasons to at least spend a little more to get a good wacom. Is it over priced? Sure. Is the yiynova over priced? yup. So then is it worth spending $600+ for a vga low resolution display with a uc logic digitizer that has poor drivers, no real good support, and a cheap lcd? I dont think so.
Wacom is NOT worried about the yiynova and they dont need to be. This isnt a defense of wacom by any means, I think ultimately they are ripping everyone off because they hold a sort of monopoly over the market...but their quality is justified. Yiynova's is not.
If you are happy with your purchase, more power to you...but I think its fair that those interested can see both sides of the coin. I provided some cheaper alternatives as a solution if money was an issue. Cintiqs ultimately are not needed to do good CG work, just a tablet and those go for under $100.
Recently I started drawing on paper again because I realized how much the wacom tablet was holding me back. I love being able to just DRAW. So with that in mind, I purchased the yiynova. The number one feature I am missing at the moment is the ability to draw directly on the screen. I'm not sure if I am going to keep my intuos 4 or not for texture and Z-brush work but... I doubt it.
Almight_gir: yeah man I think it would be awesome if you could try one out to compare, I know right now there are a lot of artist who use the cintiq daily and they love yiynova msp19U, but man the more people to test them the better
http://pixeldensitycalculator.com/
As far as repeating everything on the Frendens review, the only thing I remember from his review was that he was extremely happy with the yiynova U models, and that was in part becuase Yiynova replaced their old waltrop digitizer with a better digitizer.
Fair enough vibrant is poor choice of words, so to stop my ranting and yours lets just take the 30 seconds to pull up the specs on both
yiynova msp19U specs
http://www.yiynova.com/En/proddetails.php?proid=20&clsid=1&fid=1
wacoms HD display (24 inch display)
http://www.wacom.com/en/products/pen-displays/cintiq/cintiq-24hd
But for those who don't have time I will summarize
Screen size Wac: 24.1 in Yiy: 19 in
Aspec ratio Wac: 16:10 in Yiy: 16:10
Brightness Wac: 190 cd/m2 Yiy: 250cd/m2
Contrast ratio Wac: 550:1 Yiy: 1000:1
Native Resolution Wac: 1920 x 1200 Yiy: 1440 x 900
Number of Colors Wac: 16.7 mi Yiy: 16.7M
Color Management wac: ICC profile, 6500° K whitepoint
default, Yiy: ICC profile, 6500° K whitepoint default
Total Pixels wac: 2.304 mil Yiy: 1.296 mil
Back light: Wac: Not included on their site
I did find the post from wacom
by Wacom » Tue 11. Dec 2012, 12:34
I will try to get more information. (Wacom does not produce the LCD panels and relies on offers from panel suppliers.) We have different type of backlights for the Cintiq24, the Cintiq24 Touch and the Cintiq22 (CCFL RGB, LED).
http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12056
So there you go, the only thing that really stands out between wacom and yiynova is the pixel density and thats only for the new HD wacoms.
Ok I could continue to respond to your comments but honestly I dont have the time... I have work to do an art to make
for those reading this please don't let my statements or Datadays persuade you either way, just check out the reviews for yourself, I only intended to offer what I think is viable option to the cintiq for those who are on a tight budget.
http://i.imgur.com/PDuz5YR.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/PDuz5YR.jpg
Though I think I will stick with Yiynova and Wacom
what is the actual screen TYPE on the yiynova? from what i've read it seems to be a TN panel, while the cintiq is an h-ips. that makes a HUGE difference.
So that said man its a great point and a BIG POINT, I apologize for overlooking it.
But that said wacom is making some weird shifts between to the two 24 hd models the touch is capable of over 1 billion colors but the standard 24 hd is only capable of 16 million, what is deal with that why that discrepancy
i wasn't saying it's not worth getting the yiynova, if you don't have the disposable income, or don't feel the cintiq is a good enough investment, then sure go for it. but as others have already mentioned there are some drawbacks, like the pen nib feel.
i actually remember having a uc-logic tablet, and the feel was very springy... i thought at the time that it was really nice, and comfortable. but when i saw other artists work i sometimes wondered what they were doing differently. once i got my first wacom (a bamboo), i noticed it immediately. the difference was literally night and day. the difference was that the pen responded instantly to my strokes and not half way through them due to the spring. it also meant i wasn't having to practically lean onto the pen to get super hard strokes anymore.
so couple that, with the fact that the screen isn't as good... by a long way. trying to properly calibrate a TN panel is an absolute nightmare, and if your main monitor is an IPS you're going to be seeing the difference every minute of every day... and if your main monitor ISN'T an IPS, that's where you should be investing your money before looking into screen tablets.
i can't really comment on the discrepency over the two 24HD models, i have a 22HD. i could only guess it has something to do with the touch display manufacturer being different to the non-touch.
edit:
I'm not trying to downplay the importance of having a rival to the cintiq on the market, and i'm not trying to say the yiynova is bad... i don't have one so i can't make that comment. but what i can say is that the specs on paper aren't exactly what they say they are. i would love to do a comparison between my cintiq and the yiynova, but i'm not willing to shell out the money to do it, like i said, i don't need another tablet.
I have 2 monitors
Yamakasi catleap : s-ips 2560x1440 xqhd 16. Mil color
ACHIEVA Shimian : s-ips 2560x1440 xqhd 16 mil color
Yiynova msp19u panel 16 Mil colors
Again I will do some digging to see if I can't find and explanations on what it means to say the ips has better color representation
In summary TN panels use extra tech to reproduce colours more accurately which in most cases doesn't do a better job then the native 8-bit+ units.
I have 2 monitors which I use alongside my Cintiq 24HD (non-touch)a 24" Samsung LED and a Hazro HZ30Wie (S-IPS, 100% adobeRGB), despite the quality of the Hazro the Cintiq is still better (albeit only slightly) whilst both units decimate the quality of the LED in every department apart from brightness (despite lower contrast ratios their contrast quality just seems superior).
When I was in the market for a screen tablet last year I looked everywhere for a cheaper alternative, Yiynova, Hanvon and a very interesting offering in the form of the Bosto Kingtee (http://bosto-tablet.com/). I couldn't really find many favorable opinions on the Yiynova at the time (the older model) whereas there was a lot of good words about the Hanvon SenTip and Bosto units.
I ended up taking the plunge either way and buying the Cintiq and I was not
I think it's pretty good! I'm not the most knowledgeable person in the world, but damn it was only $600.
A few things:
the stylus has a tendancy to 'come undone' during use (for me anyway, perhapse I stab rather hard at the screen)
The viewing angle is a bit of an issue. But not really.
Overall it is a good product! The quality of the device seems sturdy and rugged. I'm thinking I might send it back and pick up the 13HD Cintique when it comes out though. Mostly because I am converting my life to a more minimal lifestyle, moving into a spare room at a friend's house, selling all my stuff, possibly hitting the road for a bit. Something smaller would be cool.
Smart. I guarantee that for that $400 difference you will see a night and day difference that is worth every penny. If you dont want to spend an extra $400 for something minimal, the 12 inchers (previous model based on the intuos 3 tech) are being sold used for around $500 to $600.
Concerning the over all topic of the yiynova, that pen will really restrict what you can do and how it looks. The super springy nature of it will keep a lot of the input looking the same, and it removes much of the accuracy you can get with the wacom pen tech.
Optinium make a great post about it, but yeah there is a pretty big difference between a monitor that simply takes 16mil color input (virtually all monitors made in the last 10 years do) and a quality panel with large gamut that you want for accurate color reproduction/art work in general.
Give this page a read for more general info on monitors: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm
Though the color gamut isn't even the main reason I would never consider a TN panel for this sort of application. Viewing angles are super important, if you have poor viewing angles it means you can't use the device on even a small angle, which IMO would make a tablet/drawing surface with tn/poor viewing angles completely useless. I would probably want tilt at a 45 degree angle or something close to that.
If you can keep the device completely parallel to your eyes and be comfortable working like that it would be less of an issue.
Earthquake thanks for the link I appreciate it!! Yeah if there is deal breaker its the viewing angle, and to be honest I'm still unsure about it. I plan on working heavily with the yiynova over next couple weeks to see if i can live with viewing angle limitations.. and Im not sure I can. Which I must agree on cheap parts discussion in that for a few extra bucks they should have put an IPS panel in it.
I kind of bought it on a gamble. From reading what wacom says, you'd think that no one else is capable of producing a decent tablet, so I was expecting something a bit junky (that also may or may not explode/infect everyone with avian flu/steal the declaration of independence).
However, I'm actually pretty pleased with the build quality. Even the pen doesn't suck too hard. I'd daresay I find it more pleasing to hold than my intuos3's pen.
For a $500 setup of a monitor and tablet mashed together, its right where it should be, I think.
The 13" cintiq wasn't around when I was shopping, and even if it were I probably would have avoided it, its overly expensive for something so small. With the zbrush interface, you'd be left with about a post-it note sized area for sculpting.
I have a 13hd and have used it with zbrush. You are grossly exaggerating. There is plenty of room to sculpt and its not that there cant be cintiq alternatives...its just the ones that do exist are bad. Cheap lcd panels, questionable chinese quality, limited type of pen input (too springy) for controlled drawing/sculpting, VGA input vs DVI, Displayport or HDMI (wacom has the latter). I purchased a yiynova msp19 out of curiosity, and it was horrible. I dont know how anyone would want to work on one unless they were desperate. Better to use a cheaper wacom tablet.