Art Tests in Portfolios
polycounter lvl 11
Is it a good idea to put failed art tests in your portfolio?
sure, it might have not been up to par or standards with said company, but could it maybe catch the eye of other companies?
Thoughts? Discuss.
sure, it might have not been up to par or standards with said company, but could it maybe catch the eye of other companies?
Thoughts? Discuss.
Replies
But I have no idea if thats what they would think, its just what I would/do think.
Sometimes a decisions isn't just based off an art test though so it is hard to tell. Was the other candidate local and you were not? Were they internally recommended or a previous employee? So many factors could have made them come to their decision outside of the test.
I would say it depends. I have a few in my folio because while they might not have landed me a job, they are still good pieces.
I have also taken a few and redid some parts or improved them to make them look better.
Don't care what people think
No one can legally oblige you to do or not do something with your work that you've done on your own time and were never paid for it.
They could ask but then again they might have not even opened it. If you look at the bigger picture they are a (big-fat) company that did take your time and never compensated you in any way, while you are just a person who needs to pay your bills yet you do stuff for free and never show it again.
If a previous test might help you get your next job then by any means do so.
And to echo they guys upwards there is bazillion a reasons you can not get hired even with a good art test. There's nothing shameful. Just be ready to come clean about it. And if the company you're applying to has a head of their own they'll be able to judge the quality of the piece and not it's origins. Just make sure the quality is there.
i concur
I'd put an missed art test on my pholio, because it shows your ready to take risk, but tell me, who made it in CG or in life without ever scratching their knee ?
You think the best hockey players in the world never lost a game ? what about the best goalies, do they always win ? What i like in someone is the ability to lose a fair match but become stronger in the end by over coming the difficulty they once had.
This would be an honest way of saying "hey i know i wasn't that great of a modeler at the time, but im ready to start all over again and show my skills."
Sorry but i would certainly stay away from virgins and know it all. Hire the guys who bleeds
.
And please upload the file with your full texture sheets at:
Hey Peanut, your reply caught my attention so I was wondering:
What about companies which only want the best? I hear the character artist field is overcrowded and if you can't pump those "badass" characters like God himself you're not worth considering. Why would companies bother with "pretty good" and try to teach a guy when they could strictly stick to hiring the best guns?
I am not saying you're wrong, I am just wondering about this other side I have read about that depicts a 3D industry that expects you to be the Chuck Norris of 3D with roundhouse kick and all.
Yes very true Dr Grim, some companies only take the best there is. But they are making a huge mistake, i've seen some character artist that were average on their pholio when they once started but with good attitude and good coaching would become really talented.
If i was on a decision making process to hire someone, i would go with the guy who puts on more work on is pieces rather than the guy who has an incredible pholio but whom i could lose due to the fact that he could be hired at some other studio (competitors).
I would go with 5 average artists rather than 1 Chuck Norris, IMO.
Glad to read I stand a chance, then. I also read sometimes big egos from pros are a problem to manage. Like those guys are hard to mesh in with an existing team.
I want to learn to roundhouse-kick, though.
I think most people would, but 1 chuck norris is going to cost maybe 1.2x an average artist, so when you only have enough budget for one character artist, your choices are either 1 average artist or 1 chuck norris.
Of course, you have to attract the Chuck Norris, as well.
I wouldn't advocate "being average" for anyone trying to get a job. Just aim to be the best you absolutely can, and show off your best work (and only best work) in your portfolio. If you have failed art tests in your portfolio, show them off, but understand that you need to do better than them, because each one of those was deemed "not good enough" by at least one employer. If you hold yourself to high standards, you will improve - if you don't, you'll wind up in the glut of unemployed/barely-employed folks that get churned out by every art school each year.
Additionally, when you put a failed art test in your portfolio, and other people do as well, now you've made it easy for someone to compare you to everyone else that has completed that art test. In the same way, making an AK-47 for your portfolio is typically a bad idea, unless you can make The Best AK-47 On The Internet, because you will be directly compared to someone else's work. It is always best to have unique work (not necessarily original - taking concepts from other games, media, and concept artists is great, especially if you are weak at concept art) in your portfolio, as it forces people to judge you directly on your own merits, and not make comparisons.
That pretty much covers the answer to your main question sir MeshModeler.
I also would suggest asking them.
Ghostscape, you raise some valid important points here, many kudos for your input.
I was only commenting about a failed artest doesn't always mean "bad" and the fact that by hiding a piece "off" your pholio based on someone else decision and not having the guts to show it elsewhere, your not a Chuck Norris.
You see Chuck Norris is not a Pussy, like many other things Chuck Norris his not afraid to show pieces based on the fact that he may offend someone. If you want a job show your ready to sweat and be in the trenches.
Did everything Leonardo Da Vinci made be hidden because x-studio companies didn't like it and doesn't approve his artistic direction ?
Oh, don't get me wrong, I try real hard. I understand what you mean though: gotta aim higher everytime you can.
I am glad to see I made the right choices for my portfolio pieces. I had seen 1000000 AK-47, 600000 badass dudes in armor (I am kinda allergic to those) and 50000000 sports cars. I just couldn't bear myself to do what everybody had done so many times before. So I wasn't insane after all...
another question comes to mind
Sure, like tor frik said you don't have to write "failed art test" on your website.
but say it actually comes up at an interview, you're showing your portfolio off and they ask what that piece (failed art test) is? then what do you do?
i can see things becoming a tad awkward if you say its a failed art test, especially in an interview where you're supposed to be showing off your strengths, not your weaknesses
Just say: 'they went with someone with a different art style.'
No need to see it as a failure.
They usually beg me to start the next day.
fuck, i'd even say put up an NDA art test as a regular folio piece... you aren't saying who it was for or why it was made, or where you got the concept... and as mentioned before, NDA on art tests is fucking retarded.
So if you do use the piece in your portfolio, it's important to only take credit for what you did.
and of course it's important you get permission first (they'll usually explain the guidelines to you anyway).
as people have said, you don't refer to it as a failed piece. Especially if you're proud of it, i mean you're always learning new things, failed or successful, and other artists know that.
So you just be honest, the model (or whatever) is from another company, and you were only responsible for the textures (or whatever). People understand that something is under NDA, and that you can't always be more specific than that. Go into detail about your process of work that brought you to that art work. Not that someone else didn't like it.
Generally, one company wouldn't want you telling another company that this is their art test
That would be my only worry about posting an art test where I didn't get the job. That the person looking at your folio would think, "oh they tried and didn't get the job there so now there trying here"
This is neither here nor there. You often sign an NDA for an art test because you're often working off of NDA material, like concepts from an unannounced game. Whether you get paid or not for it has no relevance on the matter.
If you're doing a public art test that's another story, but if you've been given a concept I would make sure to ask permission to post the work publicly.
Its not like X company is going to send their lawyers after you, but you don't want to earn a reputation as someone who breaks NDAs.
Legally you have no right to peoples work that you didn't pay for and you have no right to prohibit it's use or display in any way.
Art test can't be from something directly related to an ongoing project because if someone gets suspicious that their test was used in an actual product it would be enough grounds for a lawsuit.
Giving away NDA stuff to people who are not on the project yet is irresponsible and could end up creating more problems for both sides.
Now it's perfectly understandable how everyone doesn't want to piss studios off and get some bad rep, but this borderlines illegal. Because companies indirectly pressure you to do something they have no legal grounds to demand from you.
It's like taking compulsory overtime for month because nobody likes a quitter. It's not really the way it should be and the system is obviously flawed.
But once again I on the same page with you man. That's why there aren't more art tests on website
Thats absurd, and completely incorrect.
An NDA is exactly what it sounds like. A non disclosure contract, you sign it, you're not allowed to talk about anything that falls under tha NDA. Payment for services is again, neither here nor there.
I stand corrected. Whenever you sign an actual physical NDA you totally should not disclose stuff.
But so far I've never seen a studio do that, including a lot of very high profile ones. Maybe there's a difference between a test for a future employee and for an outsourcing contract?
Because from my experience what they usually do is just ask you not to disclose stuff, with the sole purpose of not having people copycating from one another. That way it gets pretty hard to judge if what you see for a test is an actual representation of ones skills, which I do not always agree with.
What I'm getting at is that you usually don't really posses any kind of information that could hurt them in any way and thus hardly could be a subject to an NDA contract. And even if it was it would be unenforceable in court which would technically make the contract void.
I mean companies usually know better then give away sensitive information that could actually hurt them.
From my experience they are directly related to an ongoing project - on occasion I've gotten screenshots and other concepts that were under NDA too so I knew what style to match.
Yeah in my experience getting an NDA with an art test is usually pretty typical, but really, getting an NDA before any serious discussions take place is typical as well, especially with oursourcing/contract based jobs.
If studio X doesn't give you an NDA, you're right there is nothing legally the prevents you from showing the work. However, I would still ask permission first. The industry can be very small sometimes.
All my experiences were different. The closest to an actual project I've got was to create an environment following concepts for studious previous project.
EarthQuake, true. The industry is very small. Yet I've seen a lot of people post tests when they were asked not to and nothing bad really happened. Including people who got jobs in the companies that asked them not to post the test. In the end I think we're all people, so if you post a test not just because you're being an ass but because you truly believe it would help you get a job I think people would understand.
It differs of course though, because some places would casually ask you to keep it to yourself while others will remind with every single letter and borderline threaten you, so you should really think for yourself when it's worth it.
I don't know how many people are reading this right now, but were you ever burned or know a person that was burned because he/she publicly posted an art test, that was asked to be undisclosed?
If you do a piece of art and it is a total bomb then no you don't put it in your folio. You wouldn't put a shitty personal piece in your folio so this rule is no different. If it looks good, shows off your skills and demonstrates to a potential employer/client that you can do the job then by all means add it.
I have seen some amazing art tests get turned in and people don't get jobs. In the end it isn't just about the art and it is a personal decision. Is the other person cheaper? Do they have more experience? Has some one worked with them previously? Are they going to be easier to train/ramp up/get adjusted to the workflow. So many things can factor in. Heck someone doing the interview might ask you a question about what games you play and they may not like those games and someone else might have a different answer and the interviewer will think "well this person would fit in with the team better."
Best rule for your folio to live by is "If it's awesome art, use it."
Either way, like Jesse just posted, there are a myriad of reasons why the job opening and the artist may go separate ways while the artist is still proud enough of the work to show it. I still have an art test on my now ancient portfolio that I was pretty pleased with at the time, for a company I didn't end up working for. Including it as a significant part of my portfolio didn't exactly prevent me from getting a job with Firaxis and now Blizzard. IIRC both art directors recognized it during the in-person interviews, "ah yeah isn't that the ____ test?" and it was just a passing thought and we moved on to the next piece. Really not a big deal.
In the end what people are looking for out of an art test is, "can this artist make the kind of work we want, in the style we want, at the speed and quality we want?" and one interpretation of a particular art test that makes studio A answer that with "no" could easily make studio B say "oh hell yeah".
You do need to make sure the studio hasn't prohibited the posting of the test -- most studios will state whether they're cool with it outright, but if they don't, be sure to ask them. Usually they just want to make sure you don't label it "ART TEST FOR STUDIO X" and beyond that it's up to you whether to post it.
Jesse's summary is the best so I'll just repeat that: "If it's awesome art, use it."