3DSMax - Cage, Symmetry and V-ID

Ace-Angel

Hey to all,

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to avoid issues with pretty much everything I mentioned in the title, with the following issue:

I create a LP mesh.
I pop a Project modifier on it.
I export my Cage to a Mesh (still inside Max all this).

Now here gets the vexing part, my model is symmetrical both topology and UV wise, but also, somewhat complex in build.

I can use simple modifiers as Push and FFD.

However, I don't have access to the Edit Poly tools for my cage, because they keep on resetting my Vertex ID's. So everytime I use Edit Poly to do something, my cage become null and I cannot Import it back to my Project modifier.

I also tried Symmetry, Exporting to ZB and using the internal symmetry mod's. Hell, I even tried using the Mirror mod and manually welding back the vertices from the original mesh to keep the ID's!
Nothing! No matter what I do, Max is telling me that the instant I mess with anything that gives me access to the vertex information (even a simple move it here outside of modifier) it will not accept the cage back upon import, even inside Max.

My only solution currently is to basically select the two side of my mesh, same number of vertices and such, at the same exact location and move them manually one by one, this wouldn't be an issue if my model wasn't so intricate in the first place and is some of the vertices didn't need to be moved Locally and such.

Anyone have any advice on what I can do about this? Is there even a solution? It's daunting for me to realize that something as important as your Baking cage is gimped in Max!

Oh, also, I'm XNormal for baking, but that is the least of my problems (or the same since it requires the cage to be a 1:1 match of the LP).

Cheers!

trebor777

hum, I might not be able to solve your problems but here are some tips I got for V.ID with cage and such (we can have similar issues with skinWrap and cage creation at work)
So
Check your import/export options, we use obj so here they are:
Export: - remove any "optimize vertex/normal/face setting
Import: - uncheck: import as editable poly, and uncheck "retriangulate"

This will make sure your topology stays the same at export/import.

Now to we simply convert manually to edit poly, do our stuff and back to editable mesh, and usually it works.
I'd say that whatever conversion you do on your cage you should do it on the original mesh.

Im probably completely off the subject but I hope it helps.
also why don't you bake simply half of your mesh 1st and then symmetrize it?

TrampledUnderFoot

I know racer did the 'export cage as mesh' thing in one of his tuts a long time ago, but I've never found the need for that. Working just within the projection modifier has always been fine for me. You have Push right in there, and if that is the only modifier youre using anyway, why make things more compllicated?

You can always just do the export from the projection modifier at the end of your edits so that you maintain all the same vert id's.

Ace-Angel

@Trebor: Thanks mate, but the problem is that the Import/Export (from the Projection Modifier) happens inside Max and any type of edit to it for some reason ruins it, I'm limited to deformers essentially for some reason.

I cannot simply bake one side and mirror, since that will break the tangents and Normal Map down the middle, you need to have both sides connected before the bake.

I also forgot to mention only parts of my model are symmetric, not all, so lets say the Face has not symmetry, but the hands do.

@Trampled: Cheers, but push is not enough for a model that has ears, eyes and other parts mixed in with Mechanical objects and is symmetrical, both sides need the same amount of care.

And as I mentioned, in the case of very low poly models, this can especially complicated when you're inflating parts of the model by 200% vs. some parts which don't. A simple push won't cut it.

trebor777

hum ok. What about, cloning the LP, put a small push on it and use that as a cage, you should be able to use all the cool stuff on it, and use it to project your stuff.

AlecMoody

Can you post pictures? it is a lot of text to parse through to understand what you are doing and what the problem is. From reading the first post it sounds like something is set up wrong with how you are handling symmetry inside max.

poopipe

symmetry modifier will mess with vertex numbering cos it makes new verts

you could use something along the lines of the sneaky morph mirroring/skinwrap trick to work symmetrically - it won't mess with vertex numbering and you can keep it "live" as long as you want