TOZ-120 Shotgun

Bek
polycounter lvl 5
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Bek polycounter lvl 5
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Hey all, looking for some early crits on my work in progress (you may have seen old version on ddo beta thread)

Skippable babble:

Model is a TOZ-120 shotgun by Tula Arms, russia. I started watching Millenia's excellent M37 tutorial but decided I wanted to try something a little different, so I chose this gun. This is my second or third time trying to do a proper full game model.

Software used:

Modo
xNormal
nDo free / old edition (shut it, I'm poor)
Photoshop
dDo beta (99% of the texture)
Marmoset

Tri count: 2833
In-Game vert count: 2366
efficiency: 1.197 (tri count / vertex, or maybe it's the other way around..)

Some notes of things I know are shit and will try and fix tomorrow:
  1. Side grip detail looks pretty bleh because of the crappy selection edges
  2. Wood overlay is super lazy and not reflected in spec/alpha yet
  3. Texture is quite clean (possible synonym for boring)
  4. Wood grain on side pad things needs to be rotated
  5. Some details still missing (Indents on rubber shoulder pad)
  6. Wood grain overlay makes seams at uv seams (ach, crivens)

MkfxP.png

DlrsP.png

0aGNg.png

Texture sheet

Any feedback would be awesome, I've had to go through the process of *draws breath* manually explode triangulate export mesh import into xnormal make cage bake export maps render selection map SO many times it's ridiculous. At least I'm learning from all these mistakes, planning is pretty important.

Oh and bonus question: Since modo can't set hard edge by UV seam (easily), can I use blender or another free package to quickly do this important step?

Anyway it's 1am so I'm going to sleep, excuses excuses if images broken / typos everywhere.

Oh and props to Millenia for the tutorial and Earthquake for his Normal map thready, any countless other things I've found on polycount.

Replies

  • E_Hollaway
    *UPDATE* I am retarded it seems and didn't read the description fully, apologies. >_<


    Not too bad, It seems like you need more occlusion in the spots you have it, like the grip and the section on the stock that has the bump, the bump in there in your geometry but its really hard to see it in the textured version. It's very clean, that could be what you were going for but having subtle differences in your metal and wood can go a very long way. the wood parts to me come off as very bland,I really think you could explore that area a little more, it feels a little too CG to me. Make sure you're using lots and lots of reference especially for texturing, it looks like your wood grain is also too large and uniform.

    Take a look at this picture and you can see what i mean, you have some great opportunities to darken up that wood and maybe even put some burn marks and some tarnished polyurethane in the specular map.

    toz4.jpg
    toz120vs_thumb.jpg

    I really like how you're going with the chrome look instead of the plain gun metal color and there are so many cool things you could do with it! So far I like what I see though, it's coming along and these are just some suggestions based off of what I saw. Happy Arting! :)
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    Thanks! The wood is definitely the most 'wip' part, apparently the gun stock is made of walnut (Can't find anything more specific than that) and I also can't find any decent walnut textures. I've looked on cgtextures, mayang, (arroway has some but I can't afford the pack they're in), deviantart, google images..

    Since I forgot to add references, here's some now:

    nXbjD.jpg

    UHAJG.jpg

    I'll start watching the texturing part of the m37 tutorial before tackling the wood. I'd really really like to nail it but I'm a total noob at texturing. Not sure if I like the matte or shiny barrel more, luckily it's easy to go back and forth with ddo.

    Also one regret I have with this model is not having planned it out well enough beforehand - as such I didn't get around to making it animateable (not that I know how to animate anyway) - the chamber doesn't open which helped keep the model simple but makes it less functional. Ah well.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    Tonight's update:

    uJW3D.png

    dyecP.png

    Todo:
    1. Wood needs lots of work
    2. Fix ndo detailing on the chamber
    3. Grip still looks crap (probably not enough texel density for this pattern, plus surfance isn't flat)
    4. When finalised, add final details (Text on barrel)
    Thanks for looking, let me know what you think.
  • ThaSlimShady
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    ThaSlimShady polycounter lvl 4
    Wow Bek! That's looking rad! :D

    Do you have a set purpose for this model? :)
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    Wow Bek! That's looking rad! :D

    Do you have a set purpose for this model? :)
    Thankyou! I'm hoping it'll be good enough for a portfolio piece (have to start somewhere I suppose). I'd love to get it into a game, but don't know animation and I didn't model it so it could open for reloading shells. So I guess at best it could be a display / replica weapon :poly124:
  • ThaSlimShady
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    ThaSlimShady polycounter lvl 4
    Bek wrote: »
    Thankyou! I'm hoping it'll be good enough for a portfolio piece (have to start somewhere I suppose). I'd love to get it into a game, but don't know animation and I didn't model it so it could open for reloading shells. So I guess at best it could be a display / replica weapon :poly124:

    Nice, awesome in fact! :)

    And that's unfortunate. I see by your avatar you're familliar with the STALKER series, and i thought it'd be a nice replacement for the TOZ-34 in CoP: MISERY.

    Cheers anyway!
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    I actually picked this gun to model by looking at the TOZ-34, then finding a LOT more references for the 120 and I liked the shape more, so I picked that :P

    As far as I know stalker doesn't support gloss maps either, for memory (at least in SOC) it had specularity in the alpha channel of the diffuse map, and then just a normal map.

    I see Misery 2.0 still isn't out, and Lost Alpha has been delayed yet again :( At least that gives me more time to work on stuff though.

    Also tried uploading to p3d, maps are half size and there are shading errors and such, but here we go anyway: http://p3d.in/Xy4Kh
    One problem is the flipped normals on the Over/Under selector diamond pattern, which is mirrored in the UV's.. oh well. Grip at least is unique and can be flipped.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    7yC4o.png

    VlhrW.png

    CGnd7.png

    And one more that I won't bother embedding.

    Should I keep working on the texture (and if so, what specifically?) I feel like there is room for improvement but I don't want to get caught up trying to add heaps of tiny details and never actually 'finish'.

    So.. how'd I do? Should I bother uploading a turntable? Should I have turned on Occlusion in Marmoset, or is that a no-no for real time stuff? If nothing huge is amiss I might do some corny hdr renders in marmoset and post to the showcase thread.
  • ausernottaken
    I'd make all of the metal the same color, like in the one reference you posted. The lighter part isn't really reading as metal, but more like plastic.

    The wood is too bright and saturated, and doesn't seem to have any specular at all.

    You should take the normal details on the wood and generate a cavity map using something like crazybump and multiply it on the diffuse.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    Thanks for that Ausernottaken, good crits. I've added your suggestions, what do you think? (Crazybump didn't have photo to cavity, so I went photo to normal > xnormal normal to cavity, I assume that's what you meant?)

    I'm still undecided on black or chrome barrel, so here's both:

    IHTG6.png

    QKofS.png

    And comparison with background on: Black and Chrome

    Bumping up the spec on the wood has definitely helped and made the scratches etc come out better, possibly it's a little too glossy though? Thanks for those points though, definitely improved it!
  • cookedpeanut
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    cookedpeanut polycounter lvl 6
    Chrome, the shape is more readable and looks more uniform. Black still looks good though.

    And good work, this is progressing really well...
  • ausernottaken
    I don't think so. I mean like this:

    temp-2335.jpg

    Multiplied on your diffuse and specular.



    As for the your question, I think you should make all of the metal a consistent black color. Take your pick from one of these and make a brush out of it. Paint a bunch of them on your diffuse, especially on the barrel with a very low opacity. On the specular map, however, you want them very visible.

    temp-1561.jpg


    Untitled-1-24.gif
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    Chrome, the shape is more readable and looks more uniform. Black still looks good though.

    And good work, this is progressing really well...
    Thanks! Really means a lot.

    Multiplied on your diffuse and specular.

    Just the cavity, not the normal itself right?

    I've got some fingerprints already, I'll chuck them on a brush and do as you suggested, the barrel has a relatively low texel density though, not sure how it will turn out. I'm just about to have lunch so I should have a new post in an hour or two with the changes. Maybe I'll try putting fingermarks in the gloss, not spec too? I'll see what looks good. Metal chamber can have some too.

    Thanks!
  • ausernottaken
    Yes, just the cavity map.

    Gloss will probably work just as well.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    ccjYv.jpg

    Plenty of room to add more fingerprints, I can bump up the cavity even more if needed. Thanks for our suggestions, definitely a big improvement!

    More images (Trying not to embed too much)

    side view
    front view
  • Attila
    I think you have a good model going there.

    What you did with the texture so far is good, but the wood's still looking kind of plasticky. Wood has a lot of natural variations in it that affect spec and color, even without a finish on it. Rendering clouds in PS and motion blurring them with an overlay of a low-frequency blurred noise might be a good start to a procedural approach.

    Google image search "TOZ-120" and look at some of the nicer woods - there are some that have very dark bands and stripes and other patterns. Also - the valleys of the checkering and any other place the endgrain is exposed will be darker.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    I've been tweaking the texture today, but I'm not sure if I'm improving it by much.

    I've uploaded a quick turntable to youtube and the spec/gloss/diffuse maps, which might make critiquing easier?

    [ame=" 120 yt - YouTube[/ame]

    Perhaps my spec is too noisy? Either way, I've still learned HEAPS and you've all helped me push this further than I thought it would ever go, so <3
  • ThaSlimShady
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    ThaSlimShady polycounter lvl 4
    Damn! That's looking really, really nice man!
  • Attila
    Looking good. Out of curiosity have you tried muting the gloss map on the wood to see if you like that any better? The diffuse has some really nice detail that I think the gloss is killing.
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    Damn! That's looking really, really nice man!
    Thanks!
    Attila wrote: »
    Looking good. Out of curiosity have you tried muting the gloss map on the wood to see if you like that any better? The diffuse has some really nice detail that I think the gloss is killing.
    I played around with it but I think the varnished wood needs a decent amount of gloss (probably still less than it has now though).

    I might play around with making the spec less noisy too (makes it look too rough?), which might match references better, but if it's a choice between being realistic and looking good onscreen I'll go with the latter. We'll see though!
  • Bek
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    Bek polycounter lvl 5
    I've been doing tiny tweaks here and there but I think I'm ready for closure on this one.

    Just thought I'd ask about the Polycount Showcase section, I see a lot of things from there get moved to pimping&previews, but I can't find any information about the rules for posting there? Can you post anything you've finished or does an admin have to okay the post (since I see some finished things being moved?)?

    Anyway thanks for looking, any comments or criticisms you have are great and I hope I'll come back with something even better next time :thumbup:

    bnESf.jpg

    aU9SQ.png
  • ThaSlimShady
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    ThaSlimShady polycounter lvl 4
    God, that model is so sexy. Too bad it can't be rigged, cause I'd love to animate it :D

    Well done man, portfolio quality imho.
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