Finalizing the Concept.

DrunkShaman

Hay guys;

I dont know if this has been discussed before but this is to those who actually make the 2d concepts before they jump in to 3d and make the model according to it.

The issue is that whenever I decide to make a concept, I could go for hours and make tons of it, decide to work on one piece and then end up changing that as well. Then I start over and do this exact same thing.

If anyone have had this same issue and learned to let go of the concept, can you share?

Please and thanks.

chrisradsby

Well I've realized that being efficient is the most important thing, you want to get stuff out rather quickly and spend only the necessary amount in the concept-stage. I usually just gather lots of concepts with the atmosphere and feel that I like. I also gather concepts (not related to what I want to do necessarily) and photos that has nice angles and composition that I want to use in the scene.

I usually decide a dominant visual element and create the scene around that element.

There is definitely a limit to how much time you should spend on a concept, because in the end that's not your job. You'll end up over-working it and then just getting bored of the project.

Planning is good, but it's better to plan the stuff that will actually help you. Sorting out what textures you need, how you're going to create the scene effeciently, what materials you need and what you need to learn to accomplish this project you've started.

DrunkShaman

chrisradsby wrote: »

Well I've realized that being efficient is the most important thing, you want to get stuff out rather quickly and spend only the necessary amount in the concept-stage. I usually just gather lots of concepts with the atmosphere and feel that I like. I also gather concepts (not related to what I want to do necessarily) and photos that has nice angles and composition that I want to use in the scene.

I usually decide a dominant visual element and create the scene around that element.

There is definitely a limit to how much time you should spend on a concept, because in the end that's not your job. You'll end up over-working it and then just getting bored of the project.

Planning is good, but it's better to plan the stuff that will actually help you. Sorting out what textures you need, how you're going to create the scene effeciently, what materials you need and what you need to learn to accomplish this project you've started.

So you mean to say that you dont spend much time drawing the concept (that is drawing one concept many times until you are happy with it?) This saying goes in every tutorial that I have watched and learned from so far and they dont tell you the part where you are stuck in a loop; Drawing something like 10 times, refining the piece you like, ending up changing it, going back to the phase where you drew that same thing 10 times end up drawing 10 times more.

It is indeed not necessary but some cg artists want to get this down and implement this part in their work flow. But the problem that I am having is, I would successfully make one concept art, but when I am making it in 3d, I would endup adding stuff to it that isnt in the original concept I drew, or I'd endup changing the stuff when I am drawing it the second time (following this untold statement "you need to draw one concept many times until you find the right one."

JonathanLambert

Use someone else's concept.

JR

I use to draw and paint my own concepts. But I didn´t understand your problem, sorry. Are you saying that you start drawing something, then realize you don't like that idea and start everything again? If so, it´s better to work on thumbnails before decide to refine something. Thumbnails are easy and fast to explore, you can experiment a lot of ideas, without losing much time.

And as they are just sketches you don't feel bad to abandone them. Or even better, you can save them to use later, in other projects.

Joseph Silverman

You need to have a clear course in mind. Settle on a good design, be that through thumbnails or rough sketches or writing it up in a notebook or whatever works for you -- and then execute that design in an illustration. When things don't quite work visually, tweak them, but always keep zeroing in on that design goal. Dont wander. All of your work should be a funnel that leads into the final product -- try not to spring any leaks.

secondly, and almost counter-intuitively, remember that your drawings have no value. The design is what matters. If you draw a PERFECT ARM and it isnt quite right for the design, erase it and draw one that is right for your design. Even if it's not as pristine. Dont try to cling to lines you like. Make the design. No ego, just execution.

DrunkShaman

My workflow of concept art is; Creating thumbnails until I find the one that are more appealing, creating that one thumbnail on a bigger scale and detailing it out. Do you guys stick to that detailed version and not wonder off to something else as I assume even you guys get many ideas about how to improve the concept even more when you are in the phase of final pencils?

I didnt realize it but its kind of hard to stick to one thumbnail, not wonder off and make something completely different then the one you drew in the thumbnail that you are following for the final pencils. How do you guys over come that? Do you make the same thumbnail over and over? Do you force yourself to stick to that thumbnail? Do you go back and draw what you had in mind in a different thumbnail and come back to work on the final piece?

The question was, what do you guys do to over come that.

System

Joseph Silverman wrote: »

You need to have a clear course in mind. Settle on a good design, be that through thumbnails or rough sketches or writing it up in a notebook or whatever works for you -- and then execute that design in an illustration. When things don't quite work visually, tweak them, but always keep zeroing in on that design goal. Dont wander. All of your work should be a funnel that leads into the final product -- try not to spring any leaks.

secondly, and almost counter-intuitively, remember that your drawings have no value. The design is what matters. If you draw a PERFECT ARM and it isnt quite right for the design, erase it and draw one that is right for your design. Even if it's not as pristine. Dont try to cling to lines you like. Make the design. No ego, just execution.

Nitewalkr, you should really learn to read, or just practice. (i favour the latter as it means you ask less questions)

JR

Your chars (or environments) must have a history too, and personality. This justify everything about him or her. The main reason I stick with what I do is because the elements work with the history/personality of the char. If you do things in a random way, always will be a better idea to develop. But if the design is made to construct a solid creature or enviro, and demonstrate how he/she/it is that exists in a world, you have a strong direction to follow.

DrunkShaman

Jackwhat wrote: »

Nitewalkr, you should really learn to read, or just practice. (i favour the latter as it means you ask less questions)

Thank you kind sir; For you kind information, I have read his post before posting a question about HOW, not what you should do. The things that he stated in the post is what I know and I have been trying my level best to follow them to a herf when I draw. (lol@ learn to read. Thanks for this kind insult sir Jackwhat.)

You need to have a clear course in mind. Settle on a good design, be that through thumbnails or rough sketches or writing it up in a notebook or whatever works for you -- and then execute that design in an illustration. When things don't quite work visually, tweak them, but always keep zeroing in on that design goal. Dont wander. All of your work should be a funnel that leads into the final product -- try not to spring any leaks.

secondly, and almost counter-intuitively, remember that your drawings have no value. The design is what matters. If you draw a PERFECT ARM and it isnt quite right for the design, erase it and draw one that is right for your design. Even if it's not as pristine. Dont try to cling to lines you like. Make the design. No ego, just execution.

when you say something like "You should just clear your mind and stick to the concept," you are telling the person what he should do and missing out on, How should you just stick to the concept.

Your chars (or environments) must have a history too, and personality. This justify everything about him or her. The main reason I stick with what I do is because the elements work with the history/personality of the char. If you do things in a random way, always will be a better idea to develop. But if the design is made to construct a solid creature or enviro, and demonstrate how he/she/it is that exists in a world, you have a strong direction to follow.

Wow, you just understood what I am going through. I guess I'll just try sticking to what I have right now and finish them off while trying best to stick to the concept and not changing it. I am really confused in this project at the moment.

Joseph Silverman

Develop a plan, and then resist any urge to change your plan.

"What if this would look better as a square than as a circle? Well, I decided earlier on in my design that it would be a circle, so It's just gonna have to be a mystery."

System

By making a GOOD concept is the point, as jramauri went onto say; if you make the backstory solid then the result will funnel to a point.

I will always remember a part of an interview with the author of Lone wolf and cub and how he writes his story. He talked about how he asks questions and what ifs and the characters would essentially dictate the story. It sounds so incredibly intuitive that if the character is well fleshed out then their actions will follow in a manner that befits them.

Likewise with design, dont add things for the sake of it... the character should have a story and why hes wearing that scalf... which he received from that girl whos life he saved and is now bedridden. (or its just to keep warm because the climate is cold)

Whatever.

Two Listen

It sounds like you're just having a hard time letting go and calling a design "done". This problem occurs with everything you can create, be it a 3D model, a painting, a design concept, etc. There will always be more you can do, something you can tweak or polish, or a different direction to take it in. Pretty much everyone is forced to realize and accept this at some point.

There's no special way to "overcome" it, it's just something you get better at with time and experience. It's "finished" when you stop working on it. At what stage of the game you do that, and what pops out at the end is what makes you the artist you are.

Things that can HELP with this, have already been stated. Thumbnails, references, etc. But those are just things that will help narrow down your design and help to focus your direction, they won't solve your problem. You just need to keep working, trying to fail as much as possible experimenting with different things. After awhile you won't have to experiment as much and won't be as tempted to, because you'll already know what worked and what didn't, what's going to work - and what won't (this is the case for both design and actual execution).

TL;DR - It's just something you get better at as your skills grow. It's a simple matter of putting the nail in the coffin, calling something "done" while knowing there's still a ton of things you could have done that you didn't.

DrunkShaman

Two Listen wrote: »

It sounds like you're just having a hard time letting go and calling a design "done". This problem occurs with everything you can create, be it a 3D model, a painting, a design concept, etc. There will always be more you can do, something you can tweak or polish, or a different direction to take it in. Pretty much everyone is forced to realize and accept this at some point.

There's no special way to "overcome" it, it's just something you get better at with time and experience. It's "finished" when you stop working on it. At what stage of the game you do that, and what pops out at the end is what makes you the artist you are.

Things that can HELP with this, have already been stated. Thumbnails, references, etc. But those are just things that will help narrow down your design and help to focus your direction, they won't solve your problem. You just need to keep working, trying to fail as much as possible experimenting with different things. After awhile you won't have to experiment as much and won't be as tempted to, because you'll already know what worked and what didn't, what's going to work - and what won't (this is the case for both design and actual execution).

TL;DR - It's just something you get better at as your skills grow. It's a simple matter of putting the nail in the coffin, calling something "done" while knowing there's still a ton of things you could have done that you didn't.

I actually read the entire thing thanks.

yes, it just keeps on hitting you in the head that you could change this or that while finalizing the concept after you have done the thumbnail part. With that in mind, calling it done is the hardest part. I'll try my level best to follow the suggestions given in this thread they were all great except for this one.

Use someone else's concept.

Thank you guys.