Jr Artist: Interview and $$$
polygon
Hey Poly, I could really use some help right now.
I've been art testing for a mobile games company for some time now, and the AD just set up a phone interview. I've taken classes on the subject of interviews and business practices, so I absolutely understand that I should never bring up the topic of compensation until they do. However, I want to be prepared and have a plan for what to say in the event that they do bring it up.
I've done my homework of looking through the wiki and gamecarrerguide.com dev census data from 2006-9. It appears that artists with 1-3 years of experience make an average of somewhere from 43-45k. However, that's an average, factoring in giants like EA as well as start-ups in a coffee shop.
My fear is that if asked what I'd like to make, and I say something in that ballpark, that I might alienate this young company. (currently it has ~10 employees, and is looking to double in size) So, I guess my question to you guys is this:
Are the standards different in smaller teams? If so, how do you keep both sides happy?
I really like this team so far, and want to develop a stong, lasting relationship. I just really don't want to put my foot in my mouth, or come off like an asshole. I'm sure many of you have been in this position before, and know how weird it is trying to line up your first job. Any advice and/or information you can offer to help out a friend would be HUGELY appreciated.
I've been art testing for a mobile games company for some time now, and the AD just set up a phone interview. I've taken classes on the subject of interviews and business practices, so I absolutely understand that I should never bring up the topic of compensation until they do. However, I want to be prepared and have a plan for what to say in the event that they do bring it up.
I've done my homework of looking through the wiki and gamecarrerguide.com dev census data from 2006-9. It appears that artists with 1-3 years of experience make an average of somewhere from 43-45k. However, that's an average, factoring in giants like EA as well as start-ups in a coffee shop.
My fear is that if asked what I'd like to make, and I say something in that ballpark, that I might alienate this young company. (currently it has ~10 employees, and is looking to double in size) So, I guess my question to you guys is this:
Are the standards different in smaller teams? If so, how do you keep both sides happy?
I really like this team so far, and want to develop a stong, lasting relationship. I just really don't want to put my foot in my mouth, or come off like an asshole. I'm sure many of you have been in this position before, and know how weird it is trying to line up your first job. Any advice and/or information you can offer to help out a friend would be HUGELY appreciated.
Replies
When they ask what you're looking for, you state "I can be flexible, but I am looking for a rate competitive with industry standards. What are you offering?"
From there, if it's higher than you were expecting, you win!
If it is about what you were expecting, you win!
If it is lower than what you were expecting, explain "According to the research I've seen from the Game Developer Magazine Salary Survey, that seems a bit low. Given the cost of living in (area) and the average wage for someone with my experience, it seems that something closer to (desired_wage+5%-10%padding). Does this seem reasonable to you?"
Feel free to negotiate your wages even if they're offering higher than you were expecting, it will literally never hurt you, and studies show that hiring management tends to look more favorably upon hires that negotiate wages (as it shows the the negotiator feels they're very valuable, whereas a non-negotiator indicates that you might be overpaying).
Dustin pretty much nailed it down for you.
why's that?
Mcejn: why are they useless? Are they skewed by certain sectors of the market or something?
"that's an average, factoring in giants like EA as well as start-ups in a coffee shop."
The surveys give you a broad estimate of what certain people are making, but don't paint an accurate picture. There's a reason these types of threads always pop up and I feel there needs to be a more thorough breakdown of what people can expect to make in a certain situation.
as various devs told me, such studios get a shitload of applications daily but it's not like they have abundance of applications that are actually worth considering.
It seems reasonable for higher expectations to come in pair with higher salaries.
This is partially true.
When it comes to negotiating salary, never consider yourself being an asshole. IT IS PURELY BUSINESS! If you think you're being harsh or you're thinking lowly of yourself, you're a terrible business man.
More money if it's a project that will bore me to tears.
I wouldn't really give a shit about the project if the team and management were great. Projects change through development. I think you have to consider the studio and the people before the project.
It's not a dichotomy - you can have great projects at a great studio, but you can also have a great studio with unwhelming projects or great projects and a shitty studio.
@mcejn, I think if you take a single averaged number, it's not very useful, but if you actually read the entirety of the GDMag Salary Surveys they provide useful information to work with. I certainly don't see a better alternative or a more useful source of information, so while they're not a perfect solution about the only other tool that exists is checking up H1B Visa information, which excludes junior positions entirely.
There's also www.glassdoor.com
Lets face it, for your first job there wont be much negotiating, if they offer you a job that is 45k a year, youll take it.
However, for an interview, Ghostscapes answer is pretty awesome, ill quote it, but alter it a little to get a rough price of your own in there at the start.
"I am looking for a rate competitive with industry standards, so in the region of 50k a year, but I can be flexible on that. What are you offering?"
I'm incredibly grateful for the Polycount community, especially in times like this. Very proud to be part of such an awesome group of creative people.